ErinsAudioCorner

[hardisj]

I have started some light auditioning of the Dutch & Dutch 8c’s and one random tidbit I thought I would share about their performance is just how precise images that are move across the soundstage front to back or side to side are. It’s remarkable. There is clear separation that seems to be unrivaled by other setups I’ve heard before. Granted, it’s not an A/B comparison with other speakers but every track I come across that has this behavior in it, the DD8c’s replicate so well and so exact that it makes me sit up a bit and think “well, that’s cool” to a degree that I’ve never noticed before with other speakers.

/random observation



In other news, I still haven't had time to measure any new speakers yet. I've got the Klipsch Heresy IV and the D&D speakers to measure but the weather isn't cooperating with the days I am able to actually take measurements. I need an NFS.

 

[MarsianC#]

Klipsch Heresy IV

Cool stuff.
I'll make a call and ask for better weather

 

[hardisj]

Cool stuff.
I'll make a call and ask for better weather

just don't make the call for this...

 

[hardisj]

This made me LOL (in a good way)...

I decided to use my MiniDSP UMIK-X tonight to measure the Dutch & Dutch 8c's in-room response at the main listening position in my living room. Now, currently the DD8c isn't positioned in the *best* spot. It was the initial setup to see how it's performing; just part of the iterative process of finding the best location and aiming. From the data, I could bring them out from the walls and it would help to level off the boosted LF Additionally, as you can see in these photos, the MLP is about 1-2 feet off the rear wall which is certainly not "ideal" and may be causing the broad dip in the lower midrange. Though, that's easily fixable with a couple shelf filters. With that said, the "null" might even be caused by the couch itself. I plan to re-measure with me in the seated position, holding the mic, to see if that changes anything. I know for a fact my HT seating causes issues around 400Hz that are simply not there when I am in the seat.

But, again, this is just the "ad-hoc" response and isn't intended to represent what I will arrive at in the final configuration. The point of me sharing this is to show the DD8c's the measured response at the MLP is about ±1dB above the transition frequency in my room (~400Hz). The low frequency extends to about +10dB at 20Hz (good thing; you can always shelve the response). This, out of a set of "bookshelf" speakers. Crazy.


Crazy.

I can only imagine how good these are going to sound once I position them more optimally...

MiniDSP UMIK-X used to measure the response made my life super easy as well. Loving that thing.

(side note #1: the laser shown on the speaker is via a laser level to make sure the microphone was positioned at the correct axis, between the tweeter and the midwoofer)

(side note #2: the HF boost is interesting... will have to investigate, but not something I'm worried about as there is no audible 'hiss' from these speakers that this might otherwise indicate. If I had to guess right now, I'd lean toward the calibration of the UMIK-X as the microphone is super small and that is around the point where I would expect it to break-up, if it's like a standard electet in that sense)

(side note #3: pretty sure my dog is a good absorption panel )

 

[hardisj]

Oh, and here's a comparison of the Dutch & Dutch 8c's with the F226Be's I reviewed last month, MMM from the same seated position. The DD8c isn't currently positioned in the best spot; could bring them out from the walls and it would smooth the LF a bit but move the floor bounce null between 100-200Hz higher in frequency (which is about an octave lower than the floor bounce null of the F226Be's as they were about 3 feet from the front wall), and would also smooth the lowest octaves.

One could say "that works" and just shelve the response down and consider it as "headroom", I suppose. Point being, the DD8c's are +15dB over the F226Be in-room as they sit.

 

[AudioJester]

I have a subwoofer that wont give as much output as that. Amazing!

 

[GDK]

My biggest fear with these speakers, which your pictures make amply clear, is that the connections that are required will make a mess of your family room.

 

[hardisj]

My biggest fear with these speakers, which your pictures make amply clear, is that the connections that are required will make a mess of your family room.

It's really not that bad. Other than initial setup, you only need one cable running from one speaker to the next (unless you want to always have app connection for volume). With some time I could hide them. I'm just lazy. And all I have is 50 foot mic cables.

 

[richard12511]

This made me LOL (in a good way)...

I decided to use my MiniDSP UMIK-X tonight to measure the Dutch & Dutch 8c's in-room response at the main listening position in my living room. The DD8c isn't currently positioned in the best spot; I could bring them out from the walls and it would help to fill in the floor bounce null between 100-200Hz (which is about an octave lower than the floor bounce null of the Revel F226Be's as they were about 3 feet from the front wall when I tested them), and would also smooth the lowest octaves. Additionally, as you can see in these photos, the MLP is about 1-2 feet off the rear wall which is certainly not "ideal".

But, regardless of all of this, the DD8c's the measured response at the MLP is about ±1dB above the transition frequency in my room (~400Hz). The low frequency extends to about +10dB at 20Hz (good thing; you can always shelve the response). This, out of a set of "bookshelf" speakers.

Crazy.

I can only imagine how good these are going to sound once I position them more optimally...

MiniDSP UMIK-X used to measure the response made my life super easy as well. Loving that thing.

(side note #1: the laser shown on the speaker is via a laser level to make sure the microphone was positioned at the correct axis, between the tweeter and the midwoofer)

(side note #2: the HF boost is interesting... will have to investigate, but not something I'm worried about as there is no audible 'hiss' from these speakers that this might otherwise indicate. If I had to guess right now, I'd lean toward the calibration of the UMIK-X as the microphone is super small and that is around the point where I would expect it to break-up, if it's like a standard electet in that sense)

(side note #3: pretty sure my dog is a good absorption panel )

I agree that the mic is a likely culprit for that HF rise.

 

[richard12511]

Oh, and here's a comparison of the Dutch & Dutch 8c's with the F226Be's I reviewed last month, MMM from the same seated position. The DD8c isn't currently positioned in the best spot; could bring them out from the walls and it would smooth the LF a bit but move the floor bounce null between 100-200Hz higher in frequency (which is about an octave lower than the floor bounce null of the F226Be's as they were about 3 feet from the front wall), and would also smooth the lowest octaves.

One could say "that works" and just shelve the response down and consider it as "headroom", I suppose. Point being, the DD8c's are +15dB over the F226Be in-room as they sit.


View attachment 92873

Can't wait to hear your subjective impressions of the D&D vs the Revel.

 

[thewas]

Oh, and here's a comparison of the Dutch & Dutch 8c's with the F226Be's I reviewed last month, MMM from the same seated position. The DD8c isn't currently positioned in the best spot; could bring them out from the walls and it would smooth the LF a bit but move the floor bounce null between 100-200Hz higher in frequency (which is about an octave lower than the floor bounce null of the F226Be's as they were about 3 feet from the front wall), and would also smooth the lowest octaves.

One could say "that works" and just shelve the response down and consider it as "headroom", I suppose. Point being, the DD8c's are +15dB over the F226Be in-room as they sit.


View attachment 92873

Personally I wouldn't be happy with such a wide "null" between 80-300 Hz as I used to have it on my old place and it makes music sounding lifeless, also I find it strange that the MMM of both loudspeakers is quite flat, which is in opposition of most LP measurements and targets of such loudspeakers done by @mitchco, me and others, here for example https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/best-room-response.12715/page-7#post-382707
What is the orientation of your mic during the MMM and which calibration do you use?

 

[MZKM]

My biggest fear with these speakers, which your pictures make amply clear, is that the connections that are required will make a mess of your family room.

Only in setups like that with a fireplace and a built-in. If you don’t have those and just a blank wall, you have an entertainment center in the middle that will hide the wires well.

 

[Juhazi]

Erin's spot is pretty lose to backwall, which gives huge boost. As well D&D's backside woofers get boost from frontwall more than frontside woofers/backside ports of Revel.

Room measurements of bass freq have huge variance with diferent mic positions! Below my measuements of two diy speakers both with downfire closed box 10" woofers.

 

[hardisj]

Personally I wouldn't be happy with such a wide "null" between 80-300 Hz as I used to have it on my old place and it makes music sounding lifeless, also I find it strange that the MMM of both loudspeakers is quite flat, which is in opposition of most LP measurements and targets of such loudspeakers done by @mitchco, me and others, here for example https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/best-room-response.12715/page-7#post-382707
What is the orientation of your mic during the MMM and which calibration do you use?

MMM, facing forward, me to the side of the MLP.

With the UMIK-X, I just let it's array to to the averaging; I took three measurements (as you can see in my initial D&D response) and averaged them together to let REW calculate the filters.

As for the wide "null"... not a big deal to me at this moment because the speakers are (obviously) not optimally placed in the room (based on the response measured). So, moving them will change things a bit and a couple shelf filters would easily fix the response as-is. Of course, I'll follow up with more info as I go or at least in my final review. So far, though, these things are incredible.

With that said, the "null" might even be caused by the couch itself. I plan to re-measure with me in the seated position, holding the mic, to see if that changes anything. I know for a fact my HT seating causes issues around 400Hz that are simply not there when I am in the seat.

 

[hardisj]

Only in setups like that with a fireplace and a built-in. If you don’t have those and just a blank wall, you have an entertainment center in the middle that will hide the wires well.

For sure. If I owned these speakers I would make the install more permanent. I would probably even modify the shelving to accommodate the speakers so they would sit in them.

Point being, this is "test" mode and having wires all over the place is just part of the process. No sense in tidying wires up if I'm just going to have to move them all again in a couple days. Call it lazy or unorganized. Or both.

 

[hardisj]

Also, keep in mind that aside from having the ability to load REW filters, these speakers come with tonal balance controls for the low/mid/high. I *believe* (I will have to confirm) these are shelving filters. So, the response can be cleaned up or tailored to your tastes pretty well without even needing to get REW booted up.

 

[kaka89]

D&D also perform extremely well in low volume, surprising me!

 

[hardisj]

Testing the SVS PB-2000 Pro subwoofer today and thought "hey, might be fun for folks to see what it's like in real time". So, here we are. This is simply for fun and a little FYI. Review will come later. KLIPPEL Distortion Analyzer 2 used with KLIPPEL's Tone Burst Measurement (TBM) module. Info here: https://www.klippel.de/products/rd-system/modules/tbm-tone-burst-measurement.html

 

[hardisj]

Today I was testing the Klipsch Heresy IV and figured it was a good time to provide a bit of a "behind the scenes" on how I measure loudspeakers. This is only a portion of what I do to create my content. It's a very long process that sometimes takes days but it is necessary to ensure the highest level of accuracy that only an anechoic chamber or Klippel's Near-Field Scanner can provide. I have neither of those, but I do have dedication. So, here we are. Enjoy.

(oh, and no, my neighbors don't mind. My next-door neighbor actually got a first hand demo of how I test speakers today. )

 

[phoenixdogfan]

My biggest fear with these speakers, which your pictures make amply clear, is that the connections that are required will make a mess of your family room.

I'm guessing they require line power, XLR for analog, AES/EBU for digital, and CAT 6 to connect the two together. Wonder if you can get away with using cable ties to put everything together, and then running everything along the wall or under the rug.