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ErinsAudioCorner

weasels said:
May I ask in what application 106db is considered low? That's definitely loud enough to damage hearing, no?
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My guess is he meant 35hz was a low crossover point, not the 106db.
 
hardisj said:
Help needed.

The Dutch & Dutch 8c comes with AES digital input as well as XLR Analog inputs. I’d like to test the speakers with either input but none of my gear has these outputs. My gear is a Denon X400 receivers and Oppo BDP-103. Both with unbalanced analog out only (as well as spdif toslink).

Right now I am using a Hosa spdif-to-AES/EBU converter to convert the signal from my AppleTV (which is also converted from HDMI to spdif toslink). I control volume through the D&D web interface. It works, but I would like to use something … ‘better’… for my review.

External DACS and the like are foreign to me. I’m archaic in the world of hi-fi components. I’ve just simply relied on my AVR and external amps with AppleTv and Oppo sources. I have a USB drive chock full of lossless music or could use my Oppo for CD playing. I just need a way to get signal from those sources to the D&D’s reliably in both AES and balanced analog. And having a remote would be nice for volume control (the D&D has this, but via a web interface).


So, two questions:
  • Do any of you guys happen to have something I could borrow for this setup for a month or two while I review the speakers?
  • If that’s a no-go, what would be recommended for me to purchase? I’m on an extremely limited budget and since I would rarely use something like this I don’t want to get in to uber-audiophile range. Preferably Amazon where I could return it if I don't find additional use for it.
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Contact the guy who makes the PI2AES @Michael Kelly

He is a member here, maybe he can send you one, to get more people interested in the product. For some reason the final updated model never received a review and the thread died. Its pretty cheap, even if you had to buy one.
 
Thanks. Just a thought, since many of the better speakers aren't listened to on-axis, that figure is at best not useful and at worst, misleading. I don't mean that in a negative way towards your methodology. Just think about some of the speakers you've had that measured and sounded the best off-axis a bit, maybe 10-30 degrees. Some speakers are best with no toe-in at all, just pointed straight ahead. In that case, a focus on the on-axis ratings wouldn't be representative. The most important figure for me to know – would be what is the response of the direct sound I will get when ideally set up in my room. I'm not sure how to standardize for this for all speakers, but maybe a LW average would get us partially there.
 
Understood. TBH, I forgot about that sheet. Not sure I’ll keep it. It was intended to be used as a quick look but the more this goes on, the more caveats and subjective considerations need to be made to fill in the blank. Kind of the opposite of the original intent.
 
I received (2) pair of MiniDSP's new UMIK-X for review yesterday. This recently hit the market so for those who aren't up to speed on things, the UMIK-X is an arrayed microphone setup that is designed to provide an averaged response across its four corners.

This would make taking spatial averages or measuring in various seats a more reproducible, accurate and time-saving task compared to the standard moving mic method (MMM) or moving mic average (MMA). There are many uses for this kind of thing.

Some quick notes:
The cost is $550 for a pair of microphone arrays, a USB adapter and a license to REW Pro ($100 value; necessary to use REW with an array microphone). Each pair means you get (2) arrays. Each array has (4) microphones; one at each corner of the array. So each pair then comes with (8) total arrayed microphones. You also get (2) stands and extension poles to set them up however you desire. This means you can attach the pair together on a single fixture as I have shown below OR you can place each individual mic array at different locations. Ideal for measuring different locations such as different seats in a car, multiple seats in your home theater, or possibly even used in lieu of the "subwoofer crawl" (I'm going to test this idea). Or, you can simply pair multiples to provide a more distributed array in a single seated position. Or, you can simply pair multiples to provide a more distributed array in a single seated position. You can also just use the array without a stand, in which case it takes up less than 7x7 inches and is paper thin. As I said, there are many uses for something like this.

Four arrays can be combined for a total price of $750, netting you 16-channels of recording.

Not sure when I'll get the proper review completed but once I do, I'll post it up here for sure. Until then, you can read more about the UMIK-X here: https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-x-multichannel-mic

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This is intetesting but I am not sure how many consumers would want to invest this much.
 
hardisj said:
I received (2) pair of MiniDSP's new UMIK-X for review yesterday. This recently hit the market so for those who aren't up to speed on things, the UMIK-X is an arrayed microphone setup that is designed to provide an averaged response across its four corners.

This would make taking spatial averages or measuring in various seats a more reproducible, accurate and time-saving task compared to the standard moving mic method (MMM) or moving mic average (MMA). There are many uses for this kind of thing.

Some quick notes:
The cost is $550 for a pair of microphone arrays, a USB adapter and a license to REW Pro ($100 value; necessary to use REW with an array microphone). Each pair means you get (2) arrays. Each array has (4) microphones; one at each corner of the array. So each pair then comes with (8) total arrayed microphones. You also get (2) stands and extension poles to set them up however you desire. This means you can attach the pair together on a single fixture as I have shown below OR you can place each individual mic array at different locations. Ideal for measuring different locations such as different seats in a car, multiple seats in your home theater, or possibly even used in lieu of the "subwoofer crawl" (I'm going to test this idea). Or, you can simply pair multiples to provide a more distributed array in a single seated position. Or, you can simply pair multiples to provide a more distributed array in a single seated position. You can also just use the array without a stand, in which case it takes up less than 7x7 inches and is paper thin. As I said, there are many uses for something like this.

Four arrays can be combined for a total price of $750, netting you 16-channels of recording.

Not sure when I'll get the proper review completed but once I do, I'll post it up here for sure. Until then, you can read more about the UMIK-X here: https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-x-multichannel-mic

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They don't look like they'd fit in my ears, so I don't think they'll work with my Smyth A16 Realiser.
 
Fancy! Trinnov Mic, but with even more mics?
Not sure how I could use the data to get speaker locations (->remapping DIY?)... That would be super cool!
 
weasels said:
May I ask in what application 106db is considered low? That's definitely loud enough to damage hearing, no?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I saw this and meant to respond to it awhile ago, but got distracted.

You bring up a fair point. 106dB is probably loud enough for most folks. I'm just unusual. Part of it is my main speakers are unusually dynamic, and that kind of power has unfortunately shaped my views and expectations. It kinda sucks, but it's hard for me to get goose bumps for music music playing at 85dB, no matter how perfect it sounds. Actually, 85dB is where I spend a good deal of my listening time, even in my main system(office system is usually played below that level). Generally, I'll start off around 85dB, then bump it up to 95dB or so, and then finally I'll usually play the last song or two of the night at 100dB+(trying my best to adhere to OSHA recs). Even though I listen more at 85dB than I do at 100dB+, it's those latter levels that really get my juices going, and those latter levels that I remember most. My favorite musical memory is one night where I really cranked it while listening to the 1812 overture. With spl meter in hand, I was seeing ~120dB peaks at the end when the cannons were going off. It sounded(and felt) like real cannons were going off around me, and there's just a tactile feeling of realism that's missing at more moderate levels.

I think it's important to note that 106dB at 1 meter doesn't mean I'll be able to listen at 106dB. I need to:

1. Subtract ~6dB for 2x doubling of distance.
2. Subtract ~3dB for EQ
3. Subtract ~6dB for dynamics and the fact that speakers start sounding painful(ime) as you approach their limits

The reason I've asked Erin to test this is because it's not clear to me just how loud these will "actually" be able to play in my situation. On top of what I mentioned above, there will also be some "additions" that should bring that max figure back up a bit:

1. I should be able to add dB because I'll be crossing to subs at 100Hz
2. I should be able to dB because those tests are usually done with sine waves, and real music (from what I've read)tends to be easier to play.
3. The 4 subs(playing below 100Hz) will add considerable dB to the max

All of these pluses and minuses added together make it very difficult for me to approximate the levels at which I'll be able to listen at in my home.

This speaker, as well as the Genelec 8351b, are the two speakers I'm most seriously considering as my next speaker purchase. Comparing the Genelec's max output, they list the 8351b as 113dB, BUT...that's from 100Hz+. I appreciate the bravery and honestly of D&D for listing their max spl from 35Hz+, but it makes it difficult to compare to the Genelec in this situation.

I see that @Martijn Mensink is in here. Perhaps he can give me an approximate answer. Martijn, how much louder do you think your max spl figure might be if you limited to 100Hz+?


BTW, I'm aware that neither of these speakers will get as loud as my current mains, but I'm prepared to sacrifice some dynamics for the sake of better sound quality.
 
Small update. I had a good family vacation last week at Disney World. (my wife and I used to go when we were dating; the kiddo is just a cover-up for our need to go). We live close enough to drive so we typically try to go once a year. This trip was definitely different... social distancing, wearing masks in the Florida heat, attractions being closed, and no FastPass. But, we had a really good time. We went there with the mentality that we would not be able to ride everything and that we would just enjoy being in the moment with each other and not partake in the rat-race to ride and hit all the attractions. And that's what we did. We met up with some family friends a couple different nights and had a genuinely good time as a family. We "splurged" this year for our daughter's 10th birthday and stayed at the Contemporary resort for a couple nights... couldn't afford to stay the whole trip but we enjoyed the two nights we did get to stay there. Felt kind of like royalty for those couple nights.

aaaaaaanyway, I'm back and fully recharged. Started setting up tonight to shoot the Monoprice Monolith subwoofer review and I *hope* to get that completed and posted tomorrow. So, stay tuned!

Thanks for following along and all the support thus far. You guys are awesome.

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MZKM said:
Should have gone this week, a lot colder (mid 50’s at the start of the day when I left for work). But yeah, was hot last week, that‘s Florida for you.
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Yea. We had a couple days where it wasn't too bad. But a couple very humid days where it felt hotter than the mid-80's it was. Living in Alabama, I am used to it. But I don't like it one bit.
 
hardisj said:
Yea. We had a couple days where it wasn't too bad. But a couple very humid days where it felt hotter than the mid-80's it was. Living in Alabama, I am used to it. But I don't like it one bit.
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A couple of minutes in my kind of winter weather would make you appreciate the warmth of The Southern USA. We go to a low of -45F plus wind chill during very rare times and hit -37F plus wind chill every winter without fail for maybe 3 weeks give or take. So a total temperature delta of ~135F or even more. The summer is in reality about 4 weeks long and the rest of the time it cools right down at night. I wear maybe several geese in my parka in wintertime and they work very well.
 
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