Erins Review of the Yamaha NS-10

[sigbergaudio]

These are pretty (in)famous little buggers, and I've both listened to and measured these in a studio, so I found this review to be pretty interesting.

 

[tw 2022]

The pir sucked, but surprisingly distortion was decent, and dispersion was decent too... These would be a "Dennis Murphy special"....

 

[dfuller]

The pir sucked, but surprisingly distortion was decent, and dispersion was decent too... These would be a "Dennis Murphy special"....

There have been crossover fixes for these for a while - I think Danny Richie has one that is pretty effective. But, flattening out that mid peak just makes them into mediocre mini bookshelves.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Prolly for an old school mixing engineer who likes that "Hunchback of Notre Dame" midrange.

 

[thewas]

Also already discussed here:

Avantone CLA-10 (Yamaha NS-10M Clone) Review

I was with him till this: "Our extensive experiments with top rated speaker cables clearly indicate that a quality, short length cable elicits better sonics than a superb quality, longer cable." Now I have trouble believing any of it, even if he's right. What I get from that is that they use...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[sigbergaudio]

Here's an overlay of a L+R average in the listening position at an actual studio. A bit more midbass, a horrible dip at 600-700hz, and the rest somewhat comparable. The monitors were placed on top of a large mixing console as per usual.

This is how they were positioned:

 

[Keith_W]

I just watched the review. I always thought these are hideous sounding speakers, way too bright and lacking in bass. So I am relieved that the measurements confirmed my subjective impression.

Now the big question: why are they so beloved by sound engineers?

 

[Somafunk]

I just watched the review. I always thought these are hideous sounding speakers, way too bright and lacking in bass. So I am relieved that the measurements confirmed my subjective impression.

Now the big question: why are they so beloved by sound engineers?

Because if you didn’t have a pair of NS-10’s on your mixing desk/bridge then the band you’re mixing would complain (insert dumb drummer/bass player/signer joke here)

 

[Matt_Holland]

Sound on Sound published an interesting article on the NS10 that’s worth a read.

Relatively low distortion and low group delay were found to be plus points, probably making them fairly low fatiguing for long mixing sessions.

 

[Ktacos]

probably making them fairly low fatiguing for long mixing sessions.

When I heard some, it was near instant fatigue. FR is what is likely going to cause fatigue, not group delay or distortion.

 

[Matt_Holland]

When I heard some, it was near instant fatigue. FR is what is likely going to cause fatigue, not group delay or distortion.

I heard some years ago, but only briefly. Very spotlit so you could place voices very easily. Can’t speak to their causing fatigue. Not particularly pleasant to listen to though.

 

[tw 2022]

There have been crossover fixes for these for a while - I think Danny Richie has one that is pretty effective. But, flattening out that mid peak just makes them into mediocre mini bookshelves.

I can't argue that, making lemonade out of bad lemons can require compromise....

 

[dfuller]

Now the big question: why are they so beloved by sound engineers?

As someone who is decidedly not a fan of them, they have a few things going for them.

1, they are a decent representation of a "worst case scenario" - if something sounds good on a fairly linear system and passable on these, your mix is in good shape.
2, they are everywhere - it's as close to a standard monitor as you could possibly find in a studio.
3, in the era that they became common, main monitors usually were quite bad - scooped, bassy, bright. These painted an alternate picture.
4, they were actually a pretty dramatic improvement over the other standard "grotbox" - the Auratone 5C (known as "horrortones" and "awfultones" for good reason) just by virtue of having a tweeter.

 

[Multicore]

He's doing it wrong. There's supposed to be tissue paper taped over the tweeters.

 

[Daverz]

He's doing it wrong. There's supposed to be tissue paper taped over the tweeters.

He did test with tissue over the tweeter. The result was more diffraction.

 

[Multicore]

He did test with tissue over the tweeter. The result was more diffraction.

My apologies to Erin.

Bob Hodas - Educational Resources

Two layers of the right brand of TP?

 

[Keith_W]

As someone who is decidedly not a fan of them, they have a few things going for them.

1, they are a decent representation of a "worst case scenario" - if something sounds good on a fairly linear system and passable on these, your mix is in good shape.
2, they are everywhere - it's as close to a standard monitor as you could possibly find in a studio.
3, in the era that they became common, main monitors usually were quite bad - scooped, bassy, bright. These painted an alternate picture.
4, they were actually a pretty dramatic improvement over the other standard "grotbox" - the Auratone 5C (known as "horrortones" and "awfultones" for good reason) just by virtue of having a tweeter.

Fair enough, I have to admit I haven't heard many studio monitors from that era, apart from the LS3/5A's. I don't like them either.

I remember the first time I heard the Yamaha's, I was utterly shaken. It was really a life-changing experience. They sounded so horrendously awful, my ears were stinging from the top end. I remember thinking that if this is what our recordings are mastered on, it is no wonder that our recordings sound so bad. There is at least one or two decades of muddy sounding recordings from Deutsche Grammofon - I wonder if this was the culprit. Fairly easy enough to dial in a Yamaha NS-10M boost with DSP on my system, maybe that will restore it to some neutrality.

 

[AnalogSteph]

There is at least one or two decades of muddy sounding recordings from Deutsche Grammofon - I wonder if this was the culprit.

I have my doubts. (We're talking a German classical music label here, not a US rock/pop affair.) When would that have been? Pictures of the now Emil Berliner Studios show a bunch of big B&Ws from like the '90s (mostly Matrix 801 (series 2), some Nautilus 802) when their products tended to be actually decent. The mobile gear includes some Geithain RL906s as well.

Studio tour | Emil Berliner Studios

emil-berliner-studios.com

These guys were pretty far ahead technology-wise, I kind of doubt that they would have used anything that wasn't at least halfway "grown up".

Emil Berliner Studios - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not sure what they were using pre-90s though.

 

[Clmrt]

I think they need to be seen as tools. I don't know Yamaha's original intent, but as mentioned above, if you can create a mix that sounds fairly linear on these, you have built in a curve that is then played back over 4312s. Too fat? Dial it back. Then play it over your Westlakes or UREI 813. Like steel in a forge, over and over, but you never go back to the NS10. It has done what it needed to do.

Anyway, that's what I think.

Also, maybe they are used as a microscope on the mids to get voices and harmony right.

Never intended to be hifi. I had a pair just long enough to make a couple hundred flipping them.

 

[thewas]

I don't know Yamaha's original intent

It was the wrong target of flat sound power instead of flat direct sound, see here:

Avantone CLA-10 (Yamaha NS-10M Clone) Review

I think that a lot of you don't get that those NS-10's (or auratones) were always used next to a very neutral monitor, to check mixes and how they translate to lo fi consumer speakers. Both the Auratone and the NS-10 are very good at that. They were rarely used for the mixing itself, but more as...

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