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Erin Reviews Chesky LC1
- Thread starter dfuller
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2 Dayton Audio DS215-PR 8" $30 = $60
Dayton Audio DNR-10 10 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor $1.10
Dayton Audio DMPC-8.2 8.2uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor $2.29
Dayton Audio DMPC-15 15uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor? $3.98
Dayton Audio 1.5mH 20 AWG Air Core Inductor Crossover Coil $6.59
GRS 6PR-8 Polypropylene Woofer $15.?Cabinet $50?
Black Perforated Large Hole Crossover Board Pair 3.5" x 5" $4.49
Total Parts Cost $150/speaker vs. $500/speaker retailNote this is the retail price. It's likely 1/2 that for a bulk order from an established company. The funny part is that the concept of small midwoofer combined with a double 8 inch passive radiators is a good one to get deep bass from a small speaker. It also appears that they tuned it to be flat on-axis and ignored any dispersion problems that say a waveguide and a higher order crossover might have reduced.
The cabinet looks like it's 3D printed? Or?
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The principle is honourable and valid in many cases, but I think you know how the hifi review game works.
I also don’t think Chesky (senior or junior) sent the speaker for review. Erin just refers to it being sent by its owner.
It was great that Lucca responded to Erin’s feedback and I hope he learns from it and values the data captured.
Still, it remains a supposition. And we're not talking of a Harman product here. Contrary to what one could deduct from its naming this principle isn't valuable because it's honorable but because it's efficient.
My bad, I misunderstood that part.
I commiserate with the owner.
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This thing is just another triumph of the audiophool "reviewer" hype machine AFAICT.
Penelinfi
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Foam gasket trim on the woofer and perhaps the less than perfect fitment
Penelinfi
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Funny thing is I have a speaker with a very similar woofer. I removed the gasket rings. Made a new trim ring. Ported enclosure, 2nd order filters. Funny tweeter mods I did which sounds interesting.
Still I like listening to it quite a lot even compared to speakers which are likely technically superior.
The effect hasn't gotten old yet either. I usually give it some time as stuff always sounds great after you just made it
Still I like listening to it quite a lot even compared to speakers which are likely technically superior.
The effect hasn't gotten old yet either. I usually give it some time as stuff always sounds great after you just made it
spiritualgroundbeef
Member
it is. and inside supposedly computer generated honeycomb like diffusion patterns
i talked to him at Florida show. while he has knowledge to make stuff he seemed a bit inexperienced but determined. these are built to price point with affordability as a goal.
they sounded great for what they are and filled the room better than half of the show. but personally i found tweeter odd sounding; cant pinpoint any faults just odd in my opinion. design might flaws/compromises as its compact and there is no real estate inside to fit better crossover for one. but i think if he sticks to it for 3-5 years he will produce some amazing designs.
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Being compact is not the cause of these flaws if you look at the data. The woofer seems to only have a first order low-pass and no supplementary notch filter, which explains the on-axis irregularity in the 1500-4000Hz region and poor vertical directivity. There is plenty of room inside to add 2-3 more crossover parts to fix that.
The woofer itself is also a poor choice. The GRS 6PR-8 is not well suited to small cabinets with passive radiators. Something like the Dayton DS175-8 would only increase cost by $30 per speaker, maintain similar sensitivity + impedance, yet provides deeper and more linear bass response.
For example, it hits -3dB at 47Hz in a mere 10L cabinet with 45Hz port tune. I also modelled it using the dual DS215 passive radiators. By adding 40 grams to each PR you can hit -3dB at 53Hz and -10dB at 45Hz.
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Then I would have rather chosen GRS paper cone based woofer.:
GRS 6PT-8 6-1/2" Paper Cone Professional Midbass 8 Ohm
GRS 6PT-8 6-1/2" Paper Cone Professional Midbass 8 OhmEngineered for high output with smooth frequency response, the 6PT-8 6-1/2” professional woofer is ideal for use in systems built to provide impressive SPL. Packed with features you would expect from much more expensive drivers, the 6PT-8 is...
www.parts-express.com
About twice as much power handling vs GRS 6PR-8 Polypropylene Woofer. That in combination with low distortion for GRS 6PT-8 6-1/2" Paper Cone makes it possible to play at high volume without tiring your ears. Actually, that driver probably fits best in a three-way combination as a mid driver (or as midbass as GRS themselves say), or maybe together with a sub. Like this guy who made DIY speakers with them:
Very clean and clear with little coloration to the sound, it feels like you can just keep cranking the volume and it takes all you throw at it, a 200-400w amp would not be unreasonable with these if listening to fairly dynamic content.......
Definitely needs a subwoofer unless you are listing to podcasts or talk radio. The bass gets better when placed near a wall but a subwoofer is still needed. Overall very pleased with the performance from these budget drivers. The harmonic distortion through the midrange is among the lowest of the speakers I have measured, THD ~0.2% @ 100dB 800Hz - 2kHz!
MTG Designs - VBS-6.2
The Design: A value oriented compact 6" 2-way with a horn loaded compression driver and excellent sound quality and output above 100hz. Best used as surrounds or compact mains in a home theater or where a small high output speaker is needed when subwoofers will be used to fill in the bottom end.
www.mtg-designs.com
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Tovarich007
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Terribly disappointing, this Chesky Junior's speaker, with real specs far worse than the claimed ones.
But this shows once again how this industry works too often : marketing above all, reinforecd by the father's reputation in audiophile circles and super laudative comments from complacent magazines or on line reviewers and influencers.
Good to have some serious reviewers like Amir or Erin who, as we used to tell in french "remettent l'église au milieu du village" (focus on what really matters).
But this shows once again how this industry works too often : marketing above all, reinforecd by the father's reputation in audiophile circles and super laudative comments from complacent magazines or on line reviewers and influencers.
Good to have some serious reviewers like Amir or Erin who, as we used to tell in french "remettent l'église au milieu du village" (focus on what really matters).
Moonlightshadow
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100hz
Vergiliusma
Member
That's what you get with a high Q, high Fs midwoof in too small of box, and it has limited excursion to boot. It's like the worst of everything.
MAB
Major Contributor
The BOM cost is isn't the problem, nor is it unusual to sell a product at over 3X cost.
And the cheap woofer are potentially fine if used in an appropriate application.
This^^ is the problem with the bass! It's completely predicted from the driver selection in that box volume. Screenshot of Erin's measurements with a simulation of the GRS driver plus two Dayton drones in a box smaller than 10 liters.
I made some assumptions on the added mass to the drones based on the picture Erin provided of the interior. Playing with the added mass shows that this particular alignment is on a knife-edge. And looking at the woofer, it's not a good choice for a passive radiator application in any box size.
Also, while we have no actual driver measurements of the woofer, it isn't really a good candidate for a 2-way:
The woofer is resonating at 3kHz, this will make crossover and driver integration with most tweeters very difficult. Even more so with 1st order crossovers.
edit: I forgot to attach the manufacturer's specs for the bass driver and drones. I added them below.
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After the the somewhat tedious work of figuring out the BOM cost, I didn't really have a conclusion except to see how it related to a DIY project. In this case the 'hobbyist's/designer's ignorance of tools for simulating speaker response makes this feel like a High School 3rd Place Science Fair Project.The BOM cost is isn't the problem, nor is it unusual to sell a product at over 3X cost.
And the cheap woofer are potentially fine if used in an appropriate application.
This^^ is the problem with the bass! It's completely predicted from the driver selection in that box volume. Screenshot of Erin's measurements with a simulation of the GRS driver plus two Dayton drones in a box smaller than 10 liters.
View attachment 445565
I made some assumptions on the added mass to the drones based on the picture Erin provided of the interior. Playing with the added mass shows that this particular alignment is on a knife-edge. And looking at the woofer, it's not a good choice for a passive radiator application in any box size.
Also, while we have no actual driver measurements of the woofer, it isn't really a good candidate for a 2-way:
projecting
View attachment 445566
The woofer is resonating at 3kHz, this will make crossover and driver integration with most tweeters very difficult. Even more so with 1st order crossovers.
The entire speaker screams cheap. I don't get how this can be accepted by any company as a production design.
You know what this reminds me of. The Wilson Audio TuneTot also has horrible frequency response with a hump at 100hz.
www.audiosciencereview.com
Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Wilson Audio TuneTot stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. It is on kind loan from a member and costs around US $10,000 (varies due to color). I am not a fan of the way the front looks without the grill. The sides though sport probably the best...
www.audiosciencereview.com
DSJR
Major Contributor
Has Erin left his site alone recently? I'd rather see the graphs and read a subjective summary rather than trawl through a talky YouTube video review (in my case) laden with ad breaks..
Last review I see on Erin's site is the NS10 test - and I think the NS10 has been done to death and then some by now
The 3kHz peak here reminds me of the Celestion Ditton 15XR model of the late 70s. Hated the bloomin' things in both versions and if these Erin-reviewd boxes do similar nasties, no thanks...
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Hi-Fi-Choice/1975-1982/Hi-Fi%20Choice%20Iss.%20010%20Loudspeakers%201978.pdf
Page 72 and 73
Last review I see on Erin's site is the NS10 test - and I think the NS10 has been done to death and then some by now
The 3kHz peak here reminds me of the Celestion Ditton 15XR model of the late 70s. Hated the bloomin' things in both versions and if these Erin-reviewd boxes do similar nasties, no thanks...
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Hi-Fi-Choice/1975-1982/Hi-Fi%20Choice%20Iss.%20010%20Loudspeakers%201978.pdf
Page 72 and 73
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