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Erin posted the Emotiva Airmotiv T2+ tower speaker review

flipflop

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Here the EQ is optimising for a flat PIR and that makes the speaker less good on axis (and on the LW).
That could be solved by reducing the steepness of the PIR target slope by ~0.3 dB/oct.
 

beagleman

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About 20 years ago, ATHENA made a very similar tower, that was $599 and had incredible deep bass. Other than some cabinet vibration it sounded quite decent for what it was.
 

abdo123

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This speakers are good and react well to some light EQ:

Pref Score is 5.8 and goes to 6.5 with a light EQ. If you boost the bass (it will cost you -8dB on max SPL, score goes to 7).
Since the speaker is well designed, the LW is very good out of the box. Here the EQ is optimising for a flat PIR and that makes the speaker less good on axis (and on the LW). Depending on your room that may be a good idea or not. I don't think I would EQ the speaker based on this measurements, improvements are marginal and the original PIR is already very good.

For 1k, they did a very good job, add Dirac or similar and you have very good speakers. The sweet spot will not be very large but depending on what you like (wide v.s. narrow) dispersion that could be a plus.

View attachment 167968

View attachment 167969

Can you please explain to me why the slope goes down so much (~-8 dB @ 20KHz) with your EQ? When the 'Ideal' has a much more gentle slope?

index.php
 

Steve Dallas

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Looks decent. Particularly for the price! But I just find it so very annoying that Emotiva and other companies insist on continuing with making loudspeakers passive. Emotiva have done good actives in the past, so they know how to do it. It's really trivial these days to make speakers active, with all the benefits it entails. Do we really give audio companies a pass on this in 2021...?

Many of us are deeply invested in passives, including sources, DACs, amps, and DRC solutions, etc. Speaking for myself, I do not want to change that, as I like the gear I have selected, and getting to where I am has been an enjoyable journey. Just buying Genelecs for the same money is a boring experience by comparison.

There is also the fact that passives are easily repairable for decades, where actives may not be.
 

pierre

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Can you please explain to me why the slope goes down so much (~-8 dB @ 20KHz) with your EQ? When the 'Ideal' has a much more gentle slope?

index.php
filters_eq.png

I updated with -5 dB for the PIR. Results looks the same. I use a flat target for PIR but I realize a curve would be better. What's the equation of the ideal PIR?

filters_lw.png
filters_on.png
filters_pir.png
filters_spin.png
 

Walter

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Many of us are deeply invested in passives, including sources, DACs, amps, and DRC solutions, etc. Speaking for myself, I do not want to change that, as I like the gear I have selected, and getting to where I am has been an enjoyable journey. Just buying Genelecs for the same money is a boring experience by comparison.

There is also the fact that passives are easily repairable for decades, where actives may not be.
Yep. Also, a lot of Emotiva gear is purchased for home tgeater/living room use with AVRs.
 

abdo123

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View attachment 168377
I updated with -5 dB for the PIR. Results looks the same. I use a flat target for PIR but I realize a curve would be better. What's the equation of the ideal PIR?

View attachment 168378View attachment 168379View attachment 168380View attachment 168381

I don't really have an equation or think it exists. I just used webplotdigitizer to get the plot of the Predicted room response from that graph (hypothetical speaker with 9.6 preference score) and i use it for my speakers in my room. I would love to see how the with EQ score would change if you adapt your entire collection to this.

100.7 -0.0
115.8 -0.3
133.0 -0.6
152.9 -0.9
175.7 -1.2
201.9 -1.5
232.1 -1.7
266.7 -2.0
306.5 -2.2
352.3 -2.4
404.8 -2.6
465.3 -2.7
534.7 -2.9
614.5 -3.0
706.2 -3.2
811.6 -3.3
932.8 -3.4
1072.0 -3.6
1232.0 -3.7
1415.8 -3.8
1627.1 -3.9
1870.0 -4.0
2149.1 -4.0
2469.9 -4.1
2838.5 -4.2
3262.1 -4.3
3749.0 -4.4
4308.6 -4.4
4951.6 -4.5
5690.7 -4.6
6540.0 -4.6
7516.1 -4.7
8637.9 -4.7
9927.1 -4.8
11408.7 -4.8
13111.5 -4.9
15068.4 -5.0
17317.4 -5.0
18801.1 -5.0
 

pierre

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I don't really have an equation or think it exists. I just used webplotdigitizer to get the plot of the Predicted room response from that graph (hypothetical speaker with 9.6 preference score) and i use it for my speakers in my room. I would love to see how the with EQ score would change if you adapt your entire collection to this.

100.7 -0.0
115.8 -0.3
133.0 -0.6
152.9 -0.9
175.7 -1.2
201.9 -1.5
232.1 -1.7
266.7 -2.0
306.5 -2.2
352.3 -2.4
404.8 -2.6
465.3 -2.7
534.7 -2.9
614.5 -3.0
706.2 -3.2
811.6 -3.3
932.8 -3.4
1072.0 -3.6
1232.0 -3.7
1415.8 -3.8
1627.1 -3.9
1870.0 -4.0
2149.1 -4.0
2469.9 -4.1
2838.5 -4.2
3262.1 -4.3
3749.0 -4.4
4308.6 -4.4
4951.6 -4.5
5690.7 -4.6
6540.0 -4.6
7516.1 -4.7
8637.9 -4.7
9927.1 -4.8
11408.7 -4.8
13111.5 -4.9
15068.4 -5.0
17317.4 -5.0
18801.1 -5.0
Deal :)

v1 = flat PIR
v2 = slightly curve PIR

Code:
         SPK   v1   v2
----------------------
NBD  ON 0.43 0.37 0.37
NBD  LW 0.38 0.31 0.31
NBD PIR 0.37 0.27 0.27
SM  PIR 0.76 0.92 0.85
SM   SP 0.88 0.96 0.92
LFX       32   32   32
LFQ     1.28 1.28 1.28
----------------------
Score    5.8  6.6  6.4
----------------------

Results: only SM PIR changed and negatively. Why? mostly because SM PIR is measured against a flat line (ideal is 1.0).

Now let me thing about what would be the curves maximising the score.
 
Last edited:

flipflop

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What's the equation of the ideal PIR?
The ideal PIR slope depends on the ERDI of the speaker.
A crude way of estimating it would be to take the ERDI magnitude value at 10 kHz and multiplying it by -0.2 to get the dB/oct. slope for a flat LW. We usually don't want a flat LW, though, as it would make the ON too bright with a typical speaker, so an additional -0.2-0.3 dB/oct. should be added to the slope value. If the ERDI has dips in it, the slope should be even steeper to combat the corresponding direct sound peaks.

Here's an example using KEF R3:
KEF R3 spin.jpg

The ERDI @ 10 kHz is 3.5 dB. Multiply that by -0.2 and we get -0.7.

KEF R3 PIR with a -0.7 dB/oct. target slope aligned to 300 Hz:
KEF R3 0.7.jpg

This fills the 700-2500 Hz direct sound dip, but does not deal with the 4-9 kHz excess energy in the on-axis response and even exacerbates the problem from 7 kHz and up.
To get rid of the ON resonances, the target slope is adjusted from -0.7 to -1.0 dB/oct.:
KEF R3 1.0.jpg

Side note: a -1.0 dB/oct. slope corresponds to a 10 dB drop from 20 Hz to 20 kHz.
Now the midrange dip and the treble peaking are both dealt with. The result is a perfect PIR and a close to perfect direct sound.

So to answer your question:
x = E*-0.2-0.3
Where x is the ideal PIR slope expressed in -dB/oct. and E is the value of the magnitude of the ERDI at 10 kHz.
 

Jmm22

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These don’t look bad in person with the grills on them. I have these, the C2+ and dual PSA 18” subs in my living room and they all drive off my AVR without issue. I’ve had them for about 14 months.

I bought and returned quite a few speakers before settling on these. For $1,350ish, it’s a great 3-way front stage. If you buy from them during the holidays they do their Emobucks, which is essentially 25% back towards other stuff from them. You could by the T2+ and then get $250 towards a center, amp, etc.
 
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Persik

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Given FR chart, what should be recommended crossover frequency to subwoofer?
I am using T2+ for music listening and also as LR for the home theater.
 
Last edited:

EdTice

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Not liking the aesthetics either, reminds me of some ridiculous stealth fighter tacticool stuff.

But really nice test results. Since the B1+ did well I think it's quite safe to assume the smaller T1+ is a good buy too.
T1+ are starting to be available in the used market for dirt cheap. I wish we had a preference score for them. The T1+ and T2+ look very similar but the specs are different enough that I'm not sure they would get similar scores.
 

Ricardus

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There is definitely a pair of these in my future.
 
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