That could be solved by reducing the steepness of the PIR target slope by ~0.3 dB/oct.
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Erin posted the Emotiva Airmotiv T2+ tower speaker review
- Thread starter sweetchaos
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Athena Technologies AS-F2 loudspeaker Measurements
Sidebar 3: Measurements The Athena AS-F2 turned out to be much more sensitive than usual, at an estimated 93.5dB(B)/2.83V/m. Not only will it therefore play loudly with relatively low-powered amplifiers, but its plot of impedance magnitude and phase (fig.1) reveals it to be an easy load, with a...
www.stereophile.com
About 20 years ago, ATHENA made a very similar tower, that was $599 and had incredible deep bass. Other than some cabinet vibration it sounded quite decent for what it was.
Can you please explain to me why the slope goes down so much (~-8 dB @ 20KHz) with your EQ? When the 'Ideal' has a much more gentle slope?
Steve Dallas
Major Contributor
Many of us are deeply invested in passives, including sources, DACs, amps, and DRC solutions, etc. Speaking for myself, I do not want to change that, as I like the gear I have selected, and getting to where I am has been an enjoyable journey. Just buying Genelecs for the same money is a boring experience by comparison.
There is also the fact that passives are easily repairable for decades, where actives may not be.
Can you please explain to me why the slope goes down so much (~-8 dB @ 20KHz) with your EQ? When the 'Ideal' has a much more gentle slope?
I updated with -5 dB for the PIR. Results looks the same. I use a flat target for PIR but I realize a curve would be better. What's the equation of the ideal PIR?
Walter
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Yep. Also, a lot of Emotiva gear is purchased for home tgeater/living room use with AVRs.
I don't really have an equation or think it exists. I just used webplotdigitizer to get the plot of the Predicted room response from that graph (hypothetical speaker with 9.6 preference score) and i use it for my speakers in my room. I would love to see how the with EQ score would change if you adapt your entire collection to this.
100.7 -0.0
115.8 -0.3
133.0 -0.6
152.9 -0.9
175.7 -1.2
201.9 -1.5
232.1 -1.7
266.7 -2.0
306.5 -2.2
352.3 -2.4
404.8 -2.6
465.3 -2.7
534.7 -2.9
614.5 -3.0
706.2 -3.2
811.6 -3.3
932.8 -3.4
1072.0 -3.6
1232.0 -3.7
1415.8 -3.8
1627.1 -3.9
1870.0 -4.0
2149.1 -4.0
2469.9 -4.1
2838.5 -4.2
3262.1 -4.3
3749.0 -4.4
4308.6 -4.4
4951.6 -4.5
5690.7 -4.6
6540.0 -4.6
7516.1 -4.7
8637.9 -4.7
9927.1 -4.8
11408.7 -4.8
13111.5 -4.9
15068.4 -5.0
17317.4 -5.0
18801.1 -5.0
Deal
v1 = flat PIR
v2 = slightly curve PIR
Code:
SPK v1 v2
----------------------
NBD ON 0.43 0.37 0.37
NBD LW 0.38 0.31 0.31
NBD PIR 0.37 0.27 0.27
SM PIR 0.76 0.92 0.85
SM SP 0.88 0.96 0.92
LFX 32 32 32
LFQ 1.28 1.28 1.28
----------------------
Score 5.8 6.6 6.4
----------------------Results: only SM PIR changed and negatively. Why? mostly because SM PIR is measured against a flat line (ideal is 1.0).
Now let me thing about what would be the curves maximising the score.
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The ideal PIR slope depends on the ERDI of the speaker.
A crude way of estimating it would be to take the ERDI magnitude value at 10 kHz and multiplying it by -0.2 to get the dB/oct. slope for a flat LW. We usually don't want a flat LW, though, as it would make the ON too bright with a typical speaker, so an additional -0.2-0.3 dB/oct. should be added to the slope value. If the ERDI has dips in it, the slope should be even steeper to combat the corresponding direct sound peaks.
Here's an example using KEF R3:
The ERDI @ 10 kHz is 3.5 dB. Multiply that by -0.2 and we get -0.7.
KEF R3 PIR with a -0.7 dB/oct. target slope aligned to 300 Hz:
This fills the 700-2500 Hz direct sound dip, but does not deal with the 4-9 kHz excess energy in the on-axis response and even exacerbates the problem from 7 kHz and up.
To get rid of the ON resonances, the target slope is adjusted from -0.7 to -1.0 dB/oct.:
Side note: a -1.0 dB/oct. slope corresponds to a 10 dB drop from 20 Hz to 20 kHz.
Now the midrange dip and the treble peaking are both dealt with. The result is a perfect PIR and a close to perfect direct sound.
So to answer your question:
x = E*-0.2-0.3
Where x is the ideal PIR slope expressed in -dB/oct. and E is the value of the magnitude of the ERDI at 10 kHz.
These don’t look bad in person with the grills on them. I have these, the C2+ and dual PSA 18” subs in my living room and they all drive off my AVR without issue. I’ve had them for about 14 months.
I bought and returned quite a few speakers before settling on these. For $1,350ish, it’s a great 3-way front stage. If you buy from them during the holidays they do their Emobucks, which is essentially 25% back towards other stuff from them. You could by the T2+ and then get $250 towards a center, amp, etc.
I bought and returned quite a few speakers before settling on these. For $1,350ish, it’s a great 3-way front stage. If you buy from them during the holidays they do their Emobucks, which is essentially 25% back towards other stuff from them. You could by the T2+ and then get $250 towards a center, amp, etc.
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T1+ are starting to be available in the used market for dirt cheap. I wish we had a preference score for them. The T1+ and T2+ look very similar but the specs are different enough that I'm not sure they would get similar scores.
Ricardus
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There is definitely a pair of these in my future.
Depends on your room size, listening distance and how loud you like to listen.
Erin said they can handle 'about 100-102dB at 4 meters (stereo pair)' which is loud. 104-106dB at 2.5 meters.
Towers + subs are potentially better, since you can place the subs for optimal <80Hz response. You can also reduce the woofers' IMD in the 80-350Hz band.
And of course, these are -6dB at 47Hz, with subs you can get <20Hz. How much this is an issue depends on what type of music you like to listen. You mentioned 'stereo listening', if this includes movies as well then definitely subs.
If you decide to get subs since these have 4x 8" woofers per pair I would go for dual 12" (or bigger) subs.
Thank you!
I have 7.1 setup with T2+ fronts bi-amped. My "Stereo listening" comes from two sources, Turntable or Apple Music Airplay.
For the movies, the mainstream approach of setting all speakers to small and letting Sub handle lower end works well for me. AVR crossover is set to 60Hz for T2+.
The family room is "open concept" connected to kitchen and then leaving room. Never the less for movies and stereo, I never exceed -28dB.
Given very decent low end response of T2+, and sufficient headroom of the AVR, I am questioning if I should set T2+ Large and have two low end sources, vs. single sub handling it (SVS SB300), just of the sound quality...suggestions are welcome.
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