Ergonomics (cable rant)

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I've long thought the small headphone jack and cables would make a fine low cost method of balanced home audio connection.

NOOO!!!

One of the unfortunate shortcomings in just about every field of audio has been the chronic practice of utilizing common connectors for multiple applications. The ubiquitous RCA connector has been used for line level audio, video, coaxial digital signals, and even for speaker connections (no kidding, back in the ’60s). In musical instrument applications, the “mono” or 1/4” TS plug has been used for both low-level electric guitar inputs and high-level speaker connections. The “stereo” or 1/4” TRS plug has been used both in home audio for headphone plugs, and in professional audio for balanced signal connections.

So, the last thing we need is more confusion brought about by yet another common connector used for a new application! We’d for sure getting a deluge of “help” threads on the forums from people wondering why they have hum in their systems, only to find out they’re using a unshielded headphone extension cable.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Agreed, the state of cable ergonomics is sad. I would love to see Neutrik introduce a mini Speakon for domestic and studio use.

That would be a long, hard row to hoe, getting every amplifier and speaker manufacturer on board. It took at least 10-15 years for the Speakon to become the defacto industry standard in pro audio.

And, I doubt they would see any reason to re-invent the wheel with a specialized, smaller connector. The current Speakon takes up less panel space than a pair of banana connections. Not to mention, the current cable-end connector with thumb release feels more comfortable in the hand than a smaller one would.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[DonH56]

The problem with the mini XLR, in my opinion, is that it is too small to accept a sufficiently robust cable. For example, a constant problem with the wireless mics you mentioned is an internal conductor of the tiny, fragile cable breaking just beyond the connector (where there is considerable bending and flexing of the cable).

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Good point. I have had plenty of full-size XLRs break the same way, but agree the larger cable and more robust strain relief (at least on the good ones) makes it much less an issue even in the pro world. After fixing the mini's a few times I added tape and/or shrink wrap so the first inch or three had more strain relief. Not a complete panacea, since it moves the break point out, but lasted for several years instead of months. Or our preacher breaks the wire at the headset instead. I was actually thinking of them more as interconnects, not headphone connections, on the back of crowded consumer AVRs and processors. Back there they should not be plugged and unplugged very often. And I am expecting kickbacks for my idea from the cable guys when they sell more every time a ham-handed consumer yanks them out without releasing the catch and breaks the cable.

 

[svart-hvitt]

ON BROKEN CONNECTORS

Seems like break-in is an issue after all.

 

[jhaider]

That would be a long, hard row to hoe, getting every amplifier and speaker manufacturer on board. It took at least 10-15 years for the Speakon to become the defacto industry standard in pro audio.

And, I doubt they would see any reason to re-invent the wheel with a specialized, smaller connector. The current Speakon takes up less panel space than a pair of banana connections. Not to mention, the current cable-end connector with thumb release feels more comfortable in the hand than a smaller one would.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

The issue with Speakon for home use is the one dimension you didn't mention: depth. They stick out about 2.5", or more depending on cable flexibility. I suspect adapting for home use would be as simple as a back cap that's about half the depth. There is no need for touring grade strain relief behind a home theater amp.

 

[Wombat]

The issue with Speakon for home use is the one dimension you didn't mention: depth. They stick out about 2.5", or more depending on cable flexibility. I suspect adapting for home use would be as simple as a back cap that's about half the depth. There is no need for touring grade strain relief behind a home theater amp.

Less so:

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

The issue with Speakon for home use is the one dimension you didn't mention: depth. They stick out about 2.5", or more depending on cable flexibility. I suspect adapting for home use would be as simple as a back cap that's about half the depth. There is no need for touring grade strain relief behind a home theater amp.

Indeed a good point. When you said “mini Speakon” I assumed you were referring to the diameter of the connector.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I have one amp with Speakon outputs. I am fine with it, and I like its engineering, security and ergonomics. Except, it is rare and quite far from a standard in the US. Finding Speakon to spade, pin or banana speaker cables is a little tough. For example, AudioQuest lists only a special subwoofer cable intended for the speaker end of REL subs. The other end is always spades or bananas from them. Speakon is not an option with their other cables.

And, if you buy an amp exclusively with Speakons, you need to say goodbye to your old cables or snip and reterminate them, assuming you can find a Speakon connector. Specialists stock them, though, and they are cheap. Neutrik's also require an unusual non-Phillips screwdriver bit, but at least just bare wires and no soldering. However, you likely do not already have that rare bit in your toolbox. I had never heard of it. And, a spade to Speakon adaptor of some kind would defeat any advantage. It all seems an ergonomic flop in the name of better ergonomics.

It is one of those "if only they had thought of it years ago" things. It is better, but not enough to want to make US manufacturers drop older methods in favor of it, much less offer it on the chassis in addition to older hookup terminals.

 

[DonH56]

SpeakON connectors are widely available at pro audio outlets, along with cables terminated in all the usual flavors. But yeah if you have plugs now and want to keep your cables, you can keep your cables, but not the connector that plugs into the amp. I do not recall seeing connector adapters either but haven't really looked. SpeakONs come in two- and four-conductor versions IIRC and FWIW. I have used the latter when plugging into a pro cabinet that had separate internal wires to LF and HF driver, and the other end split into a pair of two-conductor plugs for the amps (driven after an active crossover, natch). I am trying to remember if I have seen an amp with only speakONs; most seem to have speakON plus something else (banana or 1/4" TS), but again not something I have researched. Probably some out there.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Neutrik's also require an unusual non-Phillips screwdriver bit, but at least just bare wires and no soldering. However, you likely do not already have that rare bit in your toolbox. I had never heard of it.

Isn’t it a metric Allen wrench?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I am trying to remember if I have seen an amp with only speakONs; most seem to have speakON plus something else (banana or 1/4" TS), but again not something I have researched. Probably some out there.

Behringer’s iNuke and Crest Pro Lite / Peavey IPR are a couple. I’m sure there are others.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Soniclife]

You can Bluetooth music to the LS50’s but I believe the medium isn’t capable of lossless, my kids like it though!

They support aptX bluetooth so not lossless but high bitrate lossy, much higher than normal default bluetooth, if they did aptX HD I think that is lossless for 16/44. The device sending has to support aptX as well.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Isn’t it a metric Allen wrench?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Nope. It is a Pozidrive #1, resembling Phillips, but Neutrik explicitly says do not use Phillips. However, I did not check installation instructions for all their various series. Others may differ.

I bought premade Speakon to spade cables in any case. So, I never actually retrofitted Speakon to a cable.

Maybe I drank the Kool Aid, but my Spectron Class D amp offers 4 conductor, custom speaker cables that allegedly use 2 of the conductors for carrying feedback from the speaker end of the cable back into the amp circuits via the 4-point Speakon connector on each channel. It is not biwiring in the usual sense, nor is it claimed to apply feedback for the speaker load, just for the wire. Valid concept? Who knows, but they work fine, as does the amp.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Nope. It is a Pozidrive #1, resembling Phillips, but Neutrik explicitly says do not use Phillips.

Thanks. That doesn’t jibe with my memory, but it’s been a long time since I bought a Speakon. A little digging on the ‘net shows we’re both right - the older ones used Allen.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[DonH56]

There were some other amplifiers in the past that added a feedback pair from the speaker terminals to effectively compensate for speaker cable impedance but I can't remember what amp(s)... Seems like it was one of the big players. I tried it but found for reasonably heavy cables in most consumer installations there was essentially no difference, and for very long runs in a live sound situation was too much a PITA because I didn't have extra 100'+ speaker cables at the time (too cheap).

 

[jhaider]

I have one amp with Speakon outputs. I am fine with it, and I like its engineering, security and ergonomics. Except, it is rare and quite far from a standard in the US. Finding Speakon to spade, pin or banana speaker cables is a little tough. For example, AudioQuest lists only a special subwoofer cable intended for the speaker end of REL subs. The other end is always spades or bananas from them. Speakon is not an option with their other cables.

And, if you buy an amp exclusively with Speakons, you need to say goodbye to your old cables or snip and reterminate them, assuming you can find a Speakon connector. Specialists stock them, though, and they are cheap. Neutrik's also require an unusual non-Phillips screwdriver bit...

First, obviously you use whatever connectors are compatible with the gear you're connecting. I use Speakon on wallplates for our in wall wiring ,and for DIY speakers. Equipment with standard connectors gets cables terminated appropriately to interface with that equipment.

What AudioQuest specifically offers is of no concern, unless they make your amps or speakers/headphones.

Second, this tool and others like it are much better than adapters:

Third, I don't think PZ1 is particularly a rare screwdriver or bit. All the better screwdriver makers offer PZ1 in their standard screwdriver lines or basic bit sets. For example, I recently purchased this basic bit set.

https://www.kctoolco.com/wiha-76897-terminator-impact-insert-pocket-pack-28-piece-set/

It has PZ1, PZ2, and PZ3 bits.

SpeakONs come in two- and four-conductor versions IIRC and FWIW.

There is also an 8-conductor.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/fc-series/nl8fc

This is the one I saw Linkwitz use at Axpona for his 3-way Orions. I had never seen Speakon before, but the ergonomic and safety improvements over fiddly 1-conductor-at-a-time audiophile speaker connectors became instantly apparent as he explained how it worked.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

First, obviously you use whatever connectors are compatible with the gear you're connecting. I use Speakon on wallplates for our in wall wiring ,and for DIY speakers. Equipment with standard connectors gets cables terminated appropriately to interface with that equipment.

What AudioQuest specifically offers is of no concern, unless they make your amps or speakers/headphones.

Second, this tool and others like it are much better than adapters:

Third, I don't think PZ1 is particularly a rare screwdriver or bit. All the better screwdriver makers offer PZ1 in their standard screwdriver lines or basic bit sets. For example, I recently purchased this basic bit set.

https://www.kctoolco.com/wiha-76897-terminator-impact-insert-pocket-pack-28-piece-set/

It has PZ1, PZ2, and PZ3 bits.



There is also an 8-conductor.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/fc-series/nl8fc

This is the one I saw Linkwitz use at Axpona for his 3-way Orions. I had never seen Speakon before, but the ergonomic and safety improvements over fiddly 1-conductor-at-a-time audiophile speaker connectors became instantly apparent as he explained how it worked.

I think Speakon is a great idea for wall plates. And, yes, if I ever did a DIY project, I would use them too.

I picked AudioQuest only as an example. I do not like the company, and I do not buy their products. But, they appear to be about the biggest audiophile cable maker out there with the broadest and deepest product line. (Monster is no longer an audiophile brand.) Yet, Speakon is not an option for AQ. I think that is very telling about Speakon in the US market.

Yes, sure, PZ screwdrivers are obtainable. But, there are none in my toolbox because there is not a PZ screw to be found elsewhere in my house.

 

[jhaider]

Yes, sure, PZ screwdrivers are obtainable. But, there are none in my toolbox because there is not a PZ screw to be found elsewhere in my house.

Do you have any Ikea furniture? If you ever wondered why their cross-head screws seem so crappy, it's because they are usually size PZ2. They work much better when driven with the right tool.

Cabinet door adjustment screws generally are often PZ as well.

 

[blackmetalboon]

There does seem to be trend from manufacturers to make their cables as fat, un-flexible and heavy as possible, even with bargain basement cables.
I had real problems sourcing small, flexible and light weight optical cables that, due to the quirky positioning of inputs & outputs on my Pre/Processor and HTPC, didn’t keep pulling themselves out of their sockets. I ended up buying some AudioQuest cables, they were more than I ideally wanted to spend, but fit like a glove.

 

[sejarzo]

When I was very active on Head-Fi (meaning, before I got discouraged with the resistance of so many there to acknowledge that fundamental science does indeed matter in audio design) a user asked why the "industry hasn't come up with anything more high-tech than RCA connectors in all this time" or words to that effect.

He seemed utterly unmoved by my explanation that all things considered, the RCA is a a great example of excellence in simplicity for unbalanced connections, as if the cable is constructed properly, it creates a continuous shield over the signal conductor in electrically noisy environments. But yeah...they do have a tendency to be too loose or too tight.