• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Equalizer APO, REW and Tidal problem

YSC

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
3,194
Likes
2,570
Hi all,

recently used REW and equalizer APO to achieve this

L+R with harman target curve

post EQ harman.jpg


individual channel overlay

L_R_EQ.jpg



FR with phase
EQ FR and phase.jpg


it sounded really nice to my ears, but a few questions to ask:

1) shall I try to EQ the phase in this situation? I have no idea how to do it, so if it's recommended and some tutorial can be given I would be glad to learn from you experts

2) Regarding Tidal usage:
a) Shall I use force volume ? or will it render the EQ bypassed?
b) is using Hifi/Master quality streaming any different? some seems suggest tha playing MQA files will bypass the PEQ? my dac is Holo spring 2 so not hardware MQA
 

ernestcarl

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,106
Likes
2,313
Location
Canada
shall I try to EQ the phase in this situation?

You're probably better off leaving it as it is.

However, to make the phase trace more readable, apply frequency dependent window -- 5 or 3 cycles -- by clicking on the IR Windows button in REW (beside 'dB SPL 83'). Use the overlays window to see how well your left and right channels match -- the impulse start time must be very close for this to make any sense. If they're not, use 'estimate IR delay' or the 'align IR start' function to very quickly match them. Also check the excess phase by clicking on the "generate minimum phase" button in the All SPL tab options. The ideal excess phase would be close to a flat 0 degree line.

1644421985266.png



My left and right surrounds without EQ (FDW 5 cycles):

1644422200962.png
 
OP
Y

YSC

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
3,194
Likes
2,570
You're probably better off leaving it as it is.

However, to make the phase trace more readable, apply frequency dependent window -- 5 or 3 cycles -- by clicking on the IR Windows button in REW (beside 'dB SPL 83'). Use the overlays window to see how well your left and right channels match -- the impulse start time must be very close for this to make any sense. If they're not, use 'estimate IR delay' or the 'align IR start' function to very quickly match them. Also check the excess phase by clicking on the "generate minimum phase" button in the All SPL tab options. The ideal excess phase would be close to a flat 0 degree line.

View attachment 185429


My left and right surrounds without EQ (FDW 5 cycles):

View attachment 185430
my phase align seems perfect below 100 hz and then some difference are seen likely due to not properly centering the mic position. the sub phase are perfect as anything >30hz and <85hz are all done by the single sub. which differs quite consistently. any idea on the tidal setting? wondering if I could use forced volume and Master quality and still get the EQ effect, the current tuning using FLAC in foobar 2000 it basically makes perfection for me in my 8030C+7040A setup, but then for tidal wondering if the force volume /master quality files will bypass the EQ
 

ernestcarl

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,106
Likes
2,313
Location
Canada
my phase align seems perfect below 100 hz and then some difference are seen likely due to not properly centering the mic position. the sub phase are perfect as anything >30hz and <85hz are all done by the single sub. which differs quite consistently. any idea on the tidal setting? wondering if I could use forced volume and Master quality and still get the EQ effect, the current tuning using FLAC in foobar 2000 it basically makes perfection for me in my 8030C+7040A setup, but then for tidal wondering if the force volume /master quality files will bypass the EQ

Sorry, I have not used Tidal or EAPO in a while. But to do a quick check, create a temporary filter, say, high shelf of -7dB at 2kHz or low shelf filter of +5dB at 100Hz and listen if the changes are audible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YSC
OP
Y

YSC

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
3,194
Likes
2,570
Sorry, I have not used Tidal or EAPO in a while. But to do a quick check, create a temporary filter, say, high shelf of -7dB at 2kHz or low shelf filter of +5dB at 100Hz and listen if the changes are audible.

Did some quick test and seems force volume works, but master quality need restart and play so my memory of it isn’t sure
 
OP
Y

YSC

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
3,194
Likes
2,570
Follow up question:

I currently employ the EQ tactic as follow:
L & R channel: apply EQ filter at REW with both individual measurement and select the EQ target for bass limited speakers, roll off frequency set at 85hz as my genelec 7040 will high pass the signal to the mains.

Sub: use the overall measurement and set target of EQ to subwoofer

and then in Equaliser APO I choose the L and R channel to independant channel as in the device, and then add a sub EQ to apply to all channels.

Question is should I do this or just in REW do the Channel independent EQ targeted as full range speaker for L and R channel independently?
 

ernestcarl

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,106
Likes
2,313
Location
Canada
Follow up question:

I currently employ the EQ tactic as follow:
L & R channel: apply EQ filter at REW with both individual measurement and select the EQ target for bass limited speakers, roll off frequency set at 85hz as my genelec 7040 will high pass the signal to the mains.

Sub: use the overall measurement and set target of EQ to subwoofer

and then in Equaliser APO I choose the L and R channel to independant channel as in the device, and then add a sub EQ to apply to all channels.

Question is should I do this or just in REW do the Channel independent EQ targeted as full range speaker for L and R channel independently?

Sorry, I forgot to reply to this…

I sometimes do use the bass-limited target. You could certainly use it just fine. However, nowadays I don’t, and prefer to equalize the bass-managed sum response — meaning left+sub, right+sub, center+sub, left surround+sub etc. individually to shorten and simplify the steps involved. But I will equalize the sub or LFE channel separately first to get it into a manageable shape prior the individual summed/shared/bass-managed EQ if it deviates too much from the target curve that I want to achieve.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YSC
OP
Y

YSC

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
3,194
Likes
2,570
Sorry, I forgot to reply to this…

I sometimes do use the bass-limited target. You could certainly use it just fine. However, nowadays I don’t, and prefer to equalize the bass-managed sum response — meaning left+sub, right+sub, center+sub, left surround+sub etc. individually to shorten and simplify the steps involved. But I will equalize the sub or LFE channel separately first to get it into a manageable shape prior the individual summed/shared/bass-managed EQ if it deviates too much from the target curve that I want to achieve.
Thanks, I finally go the same route as my Genelec 7040 is high passing to the 8030Cs, and below x-over they are literally identical so I just go L+sub and R + sub, then go some fine tuning to bump the nulls in bass also. now very satisified
 
Top Bottom