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Equalizer APO and ASIO

honn

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Hi all!

I'm finally trying out EQ on my HiFiman HE-400i with Amir's PEQ profile using Equalizer APO software.

My question is: after setting them up, I'm not sure if they work because I use Audirvana and/or Qobuz with Topping DX3 Pro as DAC/amp using the ASIO exclusive driver. With ASIO driving Topping DX3 Pro, does the Equalizer APO work with Audirvana and Qobuz?

Thanks for the suggestions and guide in advance!
 

JW001

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ASIO bypasses Windows architecture (and Audio Processing Objects), so you will not be able to use EQ APO. But you can use a WASAPI driver.
 

Atanasi

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Equalizer APO works as a Voicemeeter plugin, so an ASIO application may connect to one of Voicemeeter's virtual ASIO drivers. Voicemeeter can use any type of driver as the output, but ASIO is recommended.
 
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honn

honn

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Equalizer APO works as a Voicemeeter plugin, so an ASIO application may connect to one of Voicemeeter's virtual ASIO drivers. Voicemeeter can use any type of driver as the output, but ASIO is recommended.
So you are saying I can normally use Equalizer APO software with my current chain? I am not sure I can hear the difference, so I assume it doesn't actually work currently.
 

Atanasi

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So you are saying I can normally use Equalizer APO software with my current chain?
Not exactly the current chain: you would have to install Voicemeeter, connect Equalizer APO to it and your music players connect to Voicemeeter.
 

L5730

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Using the ASIO driver, no, ASIO bypasses EqAPO.

You could use a virtual Cable and send DirectSound down it, with EqAPO assigned to it, and then use a DAW or some mixer software to send the other end of the Virtual Cable (DirectSound) to the DAC ASIO. But this is a bit pointless really, unless for a specific use case.
 

Sombreuil

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For those who use Voicemeeter with a DAW, do I put it into my master bus or do I need to create a track for it specifically?
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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im only using the apo into my xmox device xD no problem here, more than a 2 years working the EQ directly in the chain
im missing something with no using the wasapi thing?
 

andreasmaaan

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Hi all!

I'm finally trying out EQ on my HiFiman HE-400i with Amir's PEQ profile using Equalizer APO software.

My question is: after setting them up, I'm not sure if they work because I use Audirvana and/or Qobuz with Topping DX3 Pro as DAC/amp using the ASIO exclusive driver. With ASIO driving Topping DX3 Pro, does the Equalizer APO work with Audirvana and Qobuz?

Thanks for the suggestions and guide in advance!

If the purpose of using ASIO is to ensure maximum-fidelity playback, it may not be necessary. See this thread in which it is explained how exceptional quality (far better than any downstream device) can be obtained using Equalizer APO and boring old Windows Audio Engine.
 
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honn

honn

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Not exactly the current chain: you would have to install Voicemeeter, connect Equalizer APO to it and your music players connect to Voicemeeter.
I have successfully installed Equalizer APO (EAPO) and VoiceMeeter. Now in EAPO I can choose VoiceMeeter as the device. When I play around with the preamp gain level from config.txt tab, the music volume immediately affected, so it works. However when I opened the .txt preset file from ASR for HifiMan HE-400i, and I played around with the preamp gain, the music wasn't affected, so I guess the eq file didn't work! I'm frustrated...
 

L5730

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@honn
Go to the install path for EqAPO (probably C:\program files (x86)\EqualizerAPO\)
Open Configurator.exe, select the VoiceMeeter entry and "copy the device name to clipboard".
Open the folder "Config"
Open "config.txt" in notepad
Code:
Device: <paste device name from clipboard here>
<paste filter setting here>
Save this text file.

Go back on folder, to the EqAPO main folder and open Editor.exe
You should see the filter settings here.
 

Jose Hidalgo

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Hi guys (plus maybe @DDF can chime in, he seems quite the Equalizer APO expert after all :) ). I'm joining this topic because I have a similar need (with or without ASIO, that is the question).

I'm looking to upgrade my audio setup, which some of you already know :

Audio Signal 1.png


This setup already works perfectly, with no sync issues at all despite what some people said. We are very pleased with it. :)


STEP 1 :

I would now like to use Equalizer APO instead of foobar for the equalizer part. I guess that woud be easy : foobar would output a non-EQed 4-ch signal, Equalizer APO would equalize ch1-2 with preset 1 (for headphone 1), ch3-4 with preset 2 (for headphone 2), and then it would output an EQed 4-ch signal.

But I'd still need to communicate with my two DACs simultaneously, and AFAIK an APO can't do that.

So judging from what has been said in this topic, I guess I would need Voicemeeter (which flavor ?), with EQ APO as a plugin.
foobar would then output a non-EQed 4-ch signal, Voicemeeter + EQ APO would process it, and then :
  • Solution 1 : Voicemeeter outputs ch1-2 to DAC 1 and ch3-4 to DAC 2, effectively replacing ASIO4ALL
  • Solution 2 : Voicemeeter outputs all 4 channels to ASIO4ALL which does the splitting
Would that work ? Which solution would be best ? I would love solution 1 if that were possible, to get rid of ASIO4ALL.


STEP 2 :

My final goal would be to insert HeSuVi into my config, for each individual headphone. That means applying a HeSuVi preset to ch1-2, and a different HeSuVi preset to ch3-4. Since HeSuVi is itself a plugin of EQ APO, I suppose that's possible by configuring EQ APO accordingly ?

Voicemeeter would then process the non-EQed 4-ch signal as follows :
  • Ch1-2 : Equalizer APO preset 1 + HeSuVi preset 1
  • Ch3-4 : Equalizer APO preset 2 + HeSuVi preset 2
Would that work too ? How would my config file look ? (I'm new to Equalizer APO, just installed it a couple days ago to test HeSuVi on a single pair of headphones - it works great BTW, some presets are pretty convincing :D )


Thanks in advance for your help !
 
Last edited:

Vasr

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So judging from what has been said in this topic, I guess I would need Voicemeeter (which flavor ?), with EQ APO as a plugin.
foobar would then output a non-EQed 4-ch signal, Voicemeeter + EQ APO would process it, and then :
  • Solution 1 : Voicemeeter outputs ch1-2 to DAC 1 and ch3-4 to DAC 2, effectively replacing ASIO4ALL
  • Solution 2 : Voicemeeter outputs all 4 channels to ASIO4ALL which does the splitting
Would that work ? Which solution would be best ? I would love solution 1 if that were possible, to get rid of ASIO4ALL.

Voicemeeter will be the easiest unless you can find something simpler that can split audio (with no EQ) to two devices simultaneously.

With Voicemeeter that is essentially what you would do for the cleanest solution. Just do stereo to the two USB devices and attach EAPO to both the USB devices and configure for each:

Send foobar output to the Voicemeeter main input device as a stereo device.
In Voicemeeter, select one USB out for A and the other for B as outputs. But don't select ASIO driver or any direct mode for this.
Under the Voicemeeter main input unable both A and B. So, it sends the same audio to both devices which lands up in the two different DACs. You can use ASIO or whatever you want to reach Voicemeeter from foobar.

The above is now set up for your use case but without any EQ.

Now, using EAPO editor enable EAPO for both devices USB1 and USB2 (this will be after Voicemeeter in the chain).

For the EAPO configuration file, do the eq for each output using the device selector control to separate the settings for each USB out (with both being stereo).
 

Atanasi

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Send foobar output to the Voicemeeter main input device as a stereo device.
In Voicemeeter, select one USB out for A and the other for B as outputs. But don't select ASIO driver or any direct mode for this.
Under the Voicemeeter main input unable both A and B. So, it sends the same audio to both devices which lands up in the two different DACs. You can use ASIO or whatever you want to reach Voicemeeter from foobar.
ASIO and exclusive modes can be used if EQ APO is attached as a Voicemeeter plugin. This is a newish feature. It doesn't actually work as an APO, it uses Voicemeeter's Audio API instead. I use this configuration.
If you have Voicemeeter installed, Voicemeeter outputs appear in EQ APO configurator. For two DACs, outputs A1 and A2 would be enabled. EQ APO doesn't have to be installed to the actual output devices, and if you do install it also to hardware devices, Voicemeeter should definitely use ASIO or exclusive mode to avoid doubled processing.
I haven't tried two DACs at the same time, though. In principle, EQ APO should distinguish outputs A1 and A2, and you can assign different filters to them.

As for the edition, you should pick the edition that has the features you need. Voicemeeter Banana is a good choice, because two virtual inputs and outputs and separate control of multiple hardware outputs are often useful. Potato has a cluttered UI if you don't need the features, registration nagging and license bound to a computer.
 

Jose Hidalgo

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Thanks to both of you ! :D So if I understand well, it would be like this (no ASIO at all) :

foobar output (2 ch) --> Voicemeeter Banana input (2 ch)
Then Voicemeeter Banana sends the same stereo signal to both its outputs :
Voicemeeter Banana output A1 (2 ch) --> EAPO attached (EQ 1 + HeSuVi 1) --> USB 1
Voicemeeter Banana output A2 (2 ch) --> EAPO attached (EQ 2 + HeSuVi 2) --> USB 2

I would also need to make sure to configure Windows Sound panel so that all devices have the same bit depth & samplerate (32 bit & 44100 Hz in my case, since my DACs are 32 bit and 99% of my music is 44100 Hz).

Plus what about buffers ? Currently in ASIO4ALL I'm using 2048 samples buffers, otherwise I have sync issues. Increasing latency is not a problem at all for dual headphone listening. But what buffers would I need to increase, if needed ? Voicemeeter ? EAPO ?

About EAPO, a couple of questions :
  • I don't know what the EAPO "device selector control" is, and Google doesn't help. Do you have a link ?
  • Would I need one config file mentioning both physical outputs, or two separate config files ? I guess I need to find a nice EAPO tutorial. :)
I'll begin working on it and report on progress.
 
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Atanasi

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Plus what about buffers ? Currently in ASIO4ALL I'm using 2048 samples buffers, otherwise I have sync issues. Increasing latency is not a problem at all for dual headphone listening. But what buffers would I need to increase, if needed ? Voicemeeter ? EAPO ?
Voicemeeter's virtual inputs have some additional latency. I use 2304 (3*768). Virtual inputs support ASIO, regardless of the driver used for hardware outputs, which decreases the latency a bit. Voicemeeter includes configuration tools for virtual inputs for setting the latency.
For hardware outputs, I use 256 or 512. This is set at Voicemeeter settings.

I don't know what the EAPO "device selector control" is, and Google doesn't help. Do you have a link ?
The program is called Configurator, and it is installed with EQ APO.
 

Jose Hidalgo

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It's good to know that Voicemeeter inputs support ASIO regardless of the outputs. But I don't know if it would be best for me to use ASIO or not between foobar and Voicemeeter. As said by @DDF in his topic, it looks like ASIO isn't needed anymore when EAPO is configured properly and with a -4 dB preamp gain (regardless of the individual gains for each EQ preset I suppose). I'm a bit lost here. o_O
 

Vasr

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ASIO and exclusive modes can be used if EQ APO is attached as a Voicemeeter plugin. This is a newish feature. It doesn't actually work as an APO, it uses Voicemeeter's Audio API instead. I use this configuration.
That is interesting. By this I assume you mean if you attach EAPO to Voicemeeter virtual input device in the Configurator, you can still do ASIO to that device and EAPO will work. Or is there a different way to attach the EAPO as a plugin to use Voicemeeter API?

In any case, this won't help him because of the need to split to two devices and separate EQ for each. The selector won't be available for the outputs A1 and A2 inside EAPO if attached to the Voicemeeter input. So the following is not possible:
I haven't tried two DACs at the same time, though. In principle, EQ APO should distinguish outputs A1 and A2, and you can assign different filters to them.

You can attach EAPO to Voicemeeter output devices as post in the Configurator (which seems to be in permanent beta) but I have had problems using it this way from crashes to distortion. So, I wouldn't recommend it.

Hence my suggestion to attach EAPO to the two USB devices instead downstream from VoiceMeeter (at the expense of not being able to do direct mode/ASIO) to those devices.

  • I don't know what the EAPO "device selector control" is, and Google doesn't help. Do you have a link ?
  • Would I need one config file mentioning both physical outputs, or two separate config files ? I guess I need to find a nice EAPO tutorial. :)

When you install EAPO, you get two different confusingly named apps in the Start menu under Equalizer APO group. One is called the Configurator. This is used in Admin mode to attach EAPO to audio devices and unrelated to any filters or other things you do to process the sound. The latter is done via the other app called Configuration Editor which is a GUI front-end to create and edit the config.txt file it uses to process the audio.

In the configuration editor you can specify filters, pre-amp levels, crossovers, etc. The order of processing goes from top to bottom. You use the + sign to add a "control" (filter, volume, selection, etc).

The selection controls you add affect the controls you add under it. You can add a selection for a particular channel or for a particular device to which EAPO is attached. When you include this control, the controls below it applies to only that selected channel or device until it meets the end or another selection is made later on. All these are converted to corresponding lines in config.txt.

So you can put a device selection control and choose one device and then add the processing elements below t. Then you add another device selection control to choose another device and then put the processing elements for that device under it. That is how you separate processing for different devices.

While everything can be in one file (config.txt), I find it cleaner to separate them out in a tree. There is an "include control" you can choose in the Configuration Editor where you can specify a file to include. It will be as if those controls in the included file are inserted at that point but you can edit that included file separately in a different tab.

So it may be like (not the exact syntax)
Select Device 1
Include Device1.txt
Select Device 2
Include Device 2.txt

in the main configuration file and the EQ filters for each in the two included files.

You can further nest includes in each of those files if needed.

It's good to know that Voicemeeter inputs support ASIO regardless of the outputs. But I don't know if it would be best for me to use ASIO or not between foobar and Voicemeeter. As said by @DDF in his topic, it looks like ASIO isn't needed anymore when EAPO is configured properly and with a -4 dB preamp gain (regardless of the individual gains for each EQ preset I suppose). I'm a bit lost here. o_O

You should do this steps, one at a time so you aren't juggling multiple things at the same time because when you get no audio the first time, you have no idea where the problem is.

1. Install VoiceMeeter first and set it up without any EQ (no EAPO) as I suggested earlier. Use the simplest and most stable driver mode everywhere (e.g., MME)

Test it out so that you are getting the audio as you need to the two headphones from foobar simultaneously. Debug this until you do without getting confused with EAPO. Note any problems in distortion (may need buffering change in Voicemeeter) or latency (though this shouldn't matter for two channel audio unless you are mixing it with something else).

2. Now install EAPO and attach to the USB devices. The default will do nothing. But play again and make sure that you are still getting the audio through both.

3. Now open the Configuration Editor of EAPO and put in the device selector for each with a pre-amp volume setting only (so not to complicate with EQ settings etc) to make sure the two can be individually controlled with volume without affecting the other so you know the device selector is working.

4. Now put in the EQ settings for each and test it out.

Once you have the above working, you can try changing the access to the devices above to WDM or ASIO if you like to see which works and which don't. Keep the one that works.

You don't need the -4dB attenuation in the pre-amp volume unless you notice some problem after all of the above is done (highly unlikely) but leave the preamp volume at -0.2dB. This is a totally different issue so don't try to juggle this also with the rest of the stuff above.

Just remember, you include and set only one thing at a time and you will likely succeed. Otherwise, as a beginner, you will be tearing your hair out trying to figure out which of the different things in the chain is the problem when you are unable to get it to work.
 
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