Equalized HD700 vs HD800

[Graph Feppar]

I am trying to decide if I should buy HD700 or 800 next. I never heard the 700, I tried 800 in the shop. But this isnt just another 700 vs 800 thread, the key point is I will use heavy dose of high precision EQ with Windows APO, I will not use the premade band sliders, I will instead create my own curve with configurable Q factor, frequency and gain and I will use high number of shelf, pass and reject filters to make that curve. I will EQ both headphones to have same frequency response ( flat, like HD600), that means that the out of the box tonality doesnt matter, there will be absolutely no 6 KHz peaks, sunken upper mids or any other FR imperfections after I am done.

The only difference left between them will be comfort, distortion, soundstage width and imaging. The CSD will be slightly different but none of them have any serious ringing problems so they are almost same in that department. The 800 could play alot louder and be equalized for deeper sub bass extension becose they have less sub bass distortion. What about the soundstage width and imaging? Is 700 very good in this department or is the soundstage not as wide and imaging not as sharp as 800? Is it equal? Is it worse?

 

[solderdude]

One would have to try both side by side while using the (near perfect) EQ on both to be able to tell what the differences will be.

Personally I would (and do) rather slightly EQ a 'technically better' driver than apply much more EQ to a 'lesser' driver.

 

[Graph Feppar]

Personally I would (and do) rather slightly EQ a 'technically better' driver than apply much more EQ to a 'lesser' driver.

I know I know... but the price! I can get new HD700 for less than half the price of HD800, some people even wrote that they are more comfortable than 800. That makes up for real hard dilemma for broke ass audiophile like me lol

 

[noobie1]

I have used Windows EPO with my HD700 using an EQ file designed to emulate HD800 which I have not owned but have listened to several times at various venues. I liked the results but if I were a heavy headphone listener I’d probably just opt for the HD800.

 

[Graph Feppar]

How is the soundstage width vs 800? And how about comfort?

 

[solderdude]

HD700 clamps harder and has smaller pads that feel different.
HD800 weighs more, has a higher quality feel and much larger pads that feel ... different.
I prefer the feel of the HD800 pads but can see others liking HD700 pads more.

Soundstage of the HD700 is between HD600 and HD800, leaning towards the HD800.

There is a difference in comfort and quality.
You get what you pay for... Would look for a 2nd hand HD800 (I did) as new they simply are too expensive.

 

[flipflop]

I will use high number of shelf, pass and reject filters to make that curve

Everything that needs to be done can be accomplished exclusively with peak filters.

I will EQ both headphones to have same frequency response ( flat, like HD600)

HD 600 are not flat. They lack subbass and have bass bleeding into the mids, even by antiquated standards like DF compensation.

The CSD will be slightly different

Not if you EQ them to the exact same FR.

The 800 could play alot louder and be equalized for deeper sub bass extension becose they have less sub bass distortion.

The distortion of HD 700 is not guaranteed to be worse than the distortion of HD 800, let alone audible.

What about the soundstage width and imaging?

Rtings.com have rated HD 700's imaging at 8.7 (on a 0-10 scale) and soundstage at 8.2. HD 800 S has been rated at 9.1 and 8.7 respectively. These figures are very theoretical and also frequency response dependent.

On the note of comfort, they gave HD 700 a higher score with 8.5 against HD 800 S' 8.0:

The Sennheiser HD 700 are very comfortable headphones. They have a large and spacious ear cups coated in a soft microfiber padding that feels nice on the skin. They're fairly lightweight for their size and don't exert a lot of pressure around your ears. Moreover, unlike the HD 800 S, the ear cups are not as bulky and do not extend all the way down to your jawline so you can wear them for hours and not feel any fatigue.

Keep in mind comfort is purely subjective.

 

[hvbias]

HD 600 are not flat. They lack subbass and have bass bleeding into the mids, even by antiquated standards like DF compensation.

Do you mind saying why diffuse field is antiquated when it comes to headphones?

 

[garbulky]

You want to try to make the HD700 to sound like the hd800 (or its equal) in quality. I doubt you will be successful. Theory and reality are two different things.

 

[aleksander]

Is it due to the limit of headphone measurement, limit in EQ, or something else? How much of the so called speed of the driver (can our ear resolve below 1ms?), resolution, sound stage, etc, are just FR?

 

[Deleted member 5017]

I have HD 600s and HD 700's. I have used eqAPO to 'match' them, based on rtings measurements. I also used my UMIK-1 to check each in the nearfield (not with a head analog).

Using the dual outputs on my Chord Mojo, I swapped back and forth, and thought I had a very good match.

But in extended listening, the HD 600's just don't sound as good. I spent several hours tweaking the EQ, but still prefer the HD 700's.

Just an FYI

 

[wadec22]

Fit & feel is way different betwtthe two. Ive owned both. HD800 was one of my top 3 I've ever owned. HD700 was hands down the worst headphone I've ever owned.

HD700 clamped hard in the worst spot for me. Combine that with 15 minutes of listening (no EQ) literally caused me physical pain.

 

[tr1ple6]

Get the HD 800 and install the SDR mod. No need to EQ the highs.

 

[Graph Feppar]

Get the HD 800 and install the SDR mod. No need to EQ the highs.

If I had the money I would insta-buy the 800s and not even consider the 700 but the thing is that those 450€ they cost is already stretching my budget, I will need to live like hobo for few weeks, survive on diet of cheap instant ramen noodleas to accumulate enough funds for the HD700.

I can get old warranty-less return-less HD800 from second hand market but I am too poor to play this lottery of buying headphones I cant see or try first from some faceless rando on the ebay. Even if I buy them cheap and I get lucky and the person isnt scammer/asshole and they dont have any driver problems, to replace the headband cushion and pads is 100€ on top of whatever will the headphone cost.

And if driver fails or something I will have to pay for it becose it will be out of warranty. Having been punished hard on the HD58X I wont ever gamble with my limited funds on headphone purchase again. Buying used is for rich people becose if something gets wrong they can afford to repair or replace, I cant.

I understand HD700 isnt as good as 800 but if its like HD600/650 with better comfort and wider soundstage, then its good enough to make me happy.

 

[Graph Feppar]

You want to try to make the HD700 to sound like the hd800 (or its equal) in quality. I doubt you will be successful. Theory and reality are two different things.

Ehh... what? I never wrote that I want to "make the HD700 to sound like the hd800 (or its equal) in quality.".

I wrote I can EQ them both to have HD600 like neutral-ish frequency response. That means no matter how cancerous is the out of box FR, I will give them good flat tonality with the power of APO EQ.

 

[tr1ple6]

If I had the money I would insta-buy the 800s and not even consider the 700 but the thing is that those 450€ they cost is already stretching my budget, I will need to live like hobo for few weeks, survive on diet of cheap instant ramen noodleas to accumulate enough funds for the HD700.

I can get old warranty-less return-less HD800 from second hand market but I am too poor to play this lottery of buying headphones I cant see or try first from some faceless rando on the ebay. Even if I buy them cheap and I get lucky and the person isnt scammer/asshole and they dont have any driver problems, to replace the headband cushion and pads is 100€ on top of whatever will the headphone cost.

And if driver fails or something I will have to pay for it becose it will be out of warranty. Having been punished hard on the HD58X I wont ever gamble with my limited funds on headphone purchase again. Buying used is for rich people becose if something gets wrong they can afford to repair or replace, I cant.

I understand HD700 isnt as good as 800 but if its like HD600/650 with better comfort and wider soundstage, then its good enough to make me happy.

I bought my Hd 800 from someone on Head-Fi who is also a member here. Since your budget is tight you need to make the right decision now. It will end up being more expensive getting out of the 700 and could also ruin your headphone experience if you end up hating them.

If you do buy the HD 800 I might have a spare SDR mod which I could send you.

 

[Graph Feppar]

I bought my Hd 800 from someone on Head-Fi who is also a member here. Since your budget is tight you need to make the right decision now. It will end up being more expensive getting out of the 700 and could also ruin your headphone experience if you end up hating them.

If you do buy the HD 800 I might have a spare SDR mod which I could send you.

Thats also real possibility, wise words. My reasoning for buying HD700 is that I absolutely love HD600/650/660S and the only problem 700s they have is horrible out of box frequency response, in every other category they are either OK to amazing. HD6X0 have small soundstage and bad comfort, if HD700 fixed those issues I cant imagine not being super happy.

Another reason is that I can return them within 14 days and get full refund, I cant do that with 6 year old used HD800 from some ebay rando thousand kilometers away from me. Thanks for the SDR mod offer, very nice of you.

 

[tr1ple6]

Thats also real possibility, wise words. My reasoning for buying HD700 is that I absolutely love HD600/650/660S and the only problem they have is horrible out of box frequency response, in every other category they are either OK to amazing. HD6X0 have small soundstage and bad comfort, if HD700 fixed those issues I cant image not being super happy.

Another reason is that I can return them within 14 days and get full refund, I cant do that with 6 year old used HD800 from some ebay rando thousand kilometers away from me. Thanks for the SDR mod offer, very nice of you.

You need to balance the cost to benefit of a full refund versus the resale price of your headphones. If you need to sell your headphones for any reason you will more than likely take a huge loss on new versus used.

 

[Graph Feppar]

You need to balance the cost to benefit of a full refund versus the resale price of your headphones. If you need to sell your headphones for any reason you will more than likely take a huge loss on new versus used.

True, but I think 14 days is enough to decide if I am satisfied or not. Maybe some people need million hours to examine every little nuance of their whole 9000+ jiggabytes sized music collection to decide how they like certain headphones but I dont. I get very good idea how they are like within 5 minutes and after 1 hour I have about 95% knowledge about how they sound.

I cant imagine liking headphones for 14 days and then somehow my opinion doing 180 and switching to hating them unless the drivers get damaged.

 

[Graph Feppar]

Also I have yet another reason to go with HD700 over 800. The superior comfort Dekoni pads on HD800 kill the bass becose they dramatically increase the internal volume due to longer ear to driver distance. On other hand the new HD700 Dekoni pads either keep the bass same or even slightly boost it. You can EQ the 800 bass back up but it will decrease the 800 advantage of smaller bass distortion.