Equalising aging Ears

[multicast]

Dear Listeners,

over the time my ears aged (as well as I did . Practically I can't perceive frequencies above 10hHz, the loss starts at about 8.5kHz. Now there an equaliser may be handy to compensate that loss; I'm using IEM. Before reinventing the wheel I felt free to ask if some one else did some equalisation for his older ears. (What use is a Harman-adjusted frequency if my ears aren't Harman-compatible any more?!) How to proceed?

I did some experiments with AutoEQ plus manual adjustments which are quite satisfying.

Mike

 

[Doodski]

Dear Listeners,

over the time my ears aged (as well as I did . Practically I can't perceive frequencies above 10hHz, the loss starts at about 8.5kHz. Now there an equaliser may be handy to compensate that loss; I'm using IEM. Before reinventing the wheel I felt free to ask if some one else did some equalisation for his older ears. (What use is a Harman-adjusted frequency if my ears aren't Harman-compatible any more?!) How to proceed?

I did some experiments with AutoEQ plus manual adjustments which are quite satisfying.

Mike

Proceed by sliding those EQ/PEQ adjustments up and down and determine by ear what sounds the best to you. Don't worry about benchmarks and Harman curve stuff.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

If you use headphones and an Android device try an app called Wavelet.

In it you can apply two layers of EQ.

The first being the recommended correction to the Harman curve for your specific model of headphones.

The second being a traditional standard EQ where you can do as @Doodski suggests and play by ear.

So you can use the first to treat the known peaks, dips and deficiencies. And use the second to tailor that to your ears.

Both layers have a slider control that determines how powerfully each layer is applied.

EDIT: No idea if Wavelet is available on Apple, perhaps others can confirm our suggest alternatives.

 

[multicast]

Determing by ear is that I did. Soon I realised I have to invoke a high-shelf to prevent my ear from reaching those (for me) high frequencies I don't perceive anyway. I just don't want to ruin my ears any further. Have to get rid of some hisses, but I will proceed.

I'm using IOS, by the way. It's lacking a system-wide equaliser, but my Qudelix arrived the other day.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Hayabusa]

Dear Listeners,

over the time my ears aged (as well as I did . Practically I can't perceive frequencies above 10hHz, the loss starts at about 8.5kHz. Now there an equaliser may be handy to compensate that loss; I'm using IEM. Before reinventing the wheel I felt free to ask if some one else did some equalisation for his older ears. (What use is a Harman-adjusted frequency if my ears aren't Harman-compatible any more?!) How to proceed?

I did some experiments with AutoEQ plus manual adjustments which are quite satisfying.

Mike

Hearing loss is not just an attenuation at a certain frequency.
Its a higher threshold before you start to hear that frequency.
So in theory you should compensate that with a compressor at that frequency...

 

[Katji]

^^^It was going to be deteriorating over that period anyway.

 

[voodooless]

I don’t really see the point of doing this. In most cases, your brain already did the EQ’ing for you. You are used to the way things sound. EQ’ing it back to former “glory” will probably make things sound unrealistic.

Frequencies lost cannot be brought back anyway, not even with EQ.

 

[Newman]

Equalizing aging ears is possibly not even a good idea for enjoying the music.

Apparently, what we hear the real world like is what the mind calibrates its baseline of Normal and Right against.

 

[Hayabusa]

I don’t really see the point of doing this. In most cases, your brain already did the EQ’ing for you. You are used to the way things sound. EQ’ing it back to former “glory” will probably make things sound unrealistic.

Frequencies lost cannot be brought back anyway, not even with EQ.

"
Hearing loss is not just an attenuation at a certain frequency.
Its a higher threshold before you start to hear that frequency.
So in theory you should compensate that with a compressor at that frequency...
"

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

If anyone is saying that high frequency hearing loss is akin to a typical low pass filter and can be ameliorated with electronics needs to tell me how this works since from what I know the upper frequency limit is reached and met with a brick-wall rolloff afterward. Nothing can be done about it.

 

[Hayabusa]

If anyone is saying that high frequency hearing loss is akin to a typical low pass filter and can be ameliorated with electronics needs to tell me how this works since from what I know the upper frequency limit is reached and met with a brick-wall rolloff afterward. Nothing can be done about it.

this graph makes clear how 'typical' hearing loss works:

Here for instance at 4000Hz the hearing loss is +/-50dB.
This means a 4000Hz tone must be played at > 50dB SPL for this person to hear it.
But when it played loud an equal level 2000Hz and 4000Hz tone is perceived at the same level so not attenuated by the hearing loss.
If you would equalize for the hearing loss by amplifying 4000Hz by 50dB the soft sounds would be ok but the loud sounds would be too loud.
So this can only be corrected by having a band compressor compressing the range 0-100dB to the range 50-100dB

And indeed: if the loss is too high at a certain frequency it can not be corrected anymore.

 

[multicast]

Thank you all for your great responses. Actually, I don't perceive frequencies above 10 kHZ, so one octave is missing and I don't intend to get it back -- which would be impossible.

And I agree in the idea of "brain-EQ-ing". What I did was to moderately amplify the frequency up to around 9kHz and I'm very pleased with the result. Those lost frequencies can't be brought back, but the remaining ones may be slightly corrected to give a more pleasant hearing of music. (And I took care not to let higher amplified frequencies getting to my ears to prevent any damage from them.)

I compare it to wearing glasses: without them it would be hard to read text for me. The glasses just enhance the remaining sharpness of my eyes as the equaliser does to my ears.

Mike

 

[pozz]

Most Useful Diagram of Hearing Loss

If you have two and half hours to kill, I recommend this talk. There are a few speakers, and each of them focus on different areas of listening. General theme is headphone listening, but the talks range across a few topics. Main thing I liked is the set of diagrams below. Clearest...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In most cases, your brain already did the EQ’ing for you.

This does not happen. The compensations that do occur are not like EQ.

 

[voodooless]

Most Useful Diagram of Hearing Loss

If you have two and half hours to kill, I recommend this talk. There are a few speakers, and each of them focus on different areas of listening. General theme is headphone listening, but the talks range across a few topics. Main thing I liked is the set of diagrams below. Clearest...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This does not happen. The compensations that do occur are not like EQ.

Well, the result is the same: whatever you hear is totally natural to you unless the hearing loss happens over a relatively short period of time.

 

[LTig]

I agree with all posters who recommend not to EQ against your hearing loss. The difference then between live music and recorded (EQed) music is big.

Mr recomendation is to use no EQ for music (or very slight EQ like 3 dB max for the mids or heights according to taste) but use more EQ around 2 to 3 kHz when listening to movies or speech to improve intelligibility.

 

[pozz]

Well, the result is the same: whatever you hear is totally natural to you unless the hearing loss happens over a relatively short period of time.

Not really. The naturalness comment is out of place IMO. Natural to which state? Consider someone with congenital hearing defects helped by hearing aids or cochlear implants. Or someone who gradually undergoes changes which worsen their ability to discriminate sounds or understand conversation.

@multicast's comment about eyeglasses is appropriate. The ability to focus and resolve has its auditory correlates.

The reason not to EQ is not because your brain already provides the necessary compensations for hearing loss, but because EQ is the wrong tool. Or rather only part of a series of tools, which take their beginning from accurate level dependent personal loudness measurements.

 

[TheWalkman]

Music sounds louder to my aging ears (but these are a b&$ch to wear running.)

 

[voodooless]

Not really. The naturalness comment is out of place IMO. Natural to which state? Consider someone with congenital hearing defects helped by hearing aids or cochlear implants. Or someone who gradually undergoes changes which worsen their ability to discriminate sounds or understand conversation.

All of these are more or less permanent solutions and will make your brain get used to the new situation again. It will be the new normal.

@multicast's comment about eyeglasses is appropriate. The ability to focus and resolve has its auditory correlates.

In most cases, eyesight can be restored to former glory. That is totally not comparable.

but because EQ is the wrong tool. Or rather only part of a series of tools, which take their beginning from accurate level dependent personal loudness measurements.

That's all about the definition of EQ, isn't it? It doesn't need to be a standard linear EQ. One can also come up with dynamic filters.

 

[Katji]

Gradual hearing loss with age --> gradually turning up the volume of the tv.

 

[Dennis_FL]

My daughter is an audiologist. Maybe I can find average hearing loss for aging ears in one of her books