Hello, I am new to being an audiophile. I listen to rock, hiphop and some opera type music/violins and some games, i love y headphones. But i read eqs make stuff better. Anyone got good software with eq values to give outstanding soundstage/imaging or anything to make headphones even better. thanks. My headphones are hd660s.
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Eq settings for hd660s (HELP)
- Thread starter dsjds1010
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
Soundstage imaging can't be improved upon. The HD660S is what it is in this aspect.
Maybe with some EQ between 1kHz and 4kHz (you need to experiment) you can maybe get a small improvement but the limitations are caused by the small driver, short and not angled driver-ear distance. Those aspects can't be EQ'ed.
Better soundstage imaging requires HD560S or HD800(S).
Maybe with some EQ between 1kHz and 4kHz (you need to experiment) you can maybe get a small improvement but the limitations are caused by the small driver, short and not angled driver-ear distance. Those aspects can't be EQ'ed.
Better soundstage imaging requires HD560S or HD800(S).
HarmonicTHD
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You can try this for tonality.
The site publishes EQ Settings to mimic the Harman (Sean Olive) preference curve for headphones. It is a start from which you can decide if you like more / less bass etc. and EQ further.
AutoEq/results at master · jaakkopasanen/AutoEq
Automatic headphone equalization from frequency responses - jaakkopasanen/AutoEq
github.com
Based on some of the available frequency response plots, the HD 660S is a bit too rolled off in both the treble and the bass. And also a little uneven in some areas in between.
Comparing the response of the HD 660S to some other headphones with better extension, and a more neutral response overall across the audible frequency spectrum might give you some ideas on where to make a few adjustments to achieve some better fidelity and tonal depth/balance.
There is only so much that you can do to increase the extension in the bass on an open dynamic headphone like the HD 660S though, without increasing the audible distortion in that range. A closed headphone can be much more forgiving in that respect, though it will also have a less open sound.
Here's a diffuse field compensated plot of the HD 660S's frequency response....
And here is the HD 660S, with some other fairly neutral headphones that are somewhat better extended in the bass and treble for comparsion. The HD 660S is represented by the red curve on both graphs...
The other headphones have more bass below about 120 Hz than the HD 660S. And they are brighter in the treble above 10 kHz, and in the lower treble around 7-8 kHz (except for the Apple APM, which is probably also too withdrawn in the 6-7k range). And they're maybe also a tad brighter than the HD 660S in the 3-4 kHz range.
The HD 660S might be just a tad bright though in the upper mids around 1.3 kHz.
Comparing the response of the HD 660S to some other headphones with better extension, and a more neutral response overall across the audible frequency spectrum might give you some ideas on where to make a few adjustments to achieve some better fidelity and tonal depth/balance.
There is only so much that you can do to increase the extension in the bass on an open dynamic headphone like the HD 660S though, without increasing the audible distortion in that range. A closed headphone can be much more forgiving in that respect, though it will also have a less open sound.
Here's a diffuse field compensated plot of the HD 660S's frequency response....
And here is the HD 660S, with some other fairly neutral headphones that are somewhat better extended in the bass and treble for comparsion. The HD 660S is represented by the red curve on both graphs...
The other headphones have more bass below about 120 Hz than the HD 660S. And they are brighter in the treble above 10 kHz, and in the lower treble around 7-8 kHz (except for the Apple APM, which is probably also too withdrawn in the 6-7k range). And they're maybe also a tad brighter than the HD 660S in the 3-4 kHz range.
The HD 660S might be just a tad bright though in the upper mids around 1.3 kHz.
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Assuming you use Windows, you should try Equalizer APO for system wide EQ.
My 660S settings (Mostly Oratory1990 settings, but bass boosted by a lot):
Code:
Filter: ON PK Fc 35 Hz Gain 2.2 dB Q 1.5
Filter: ON LSC Fc 100 Hz Gain 12.5 dB Q 0.71
Filter: ON PK Fc 210 Hz Gain -1.9 dB Q 0.8
Filter: ON PK Fc 600 Hz Gain 0.5 dB Q 1.4
Filter: ON PK Fc 1320 Hz Gain -2.1 dB Q 1.8
Filter: ON HSC Fc 1600 Hz Gain 4 dB Q 0.71
Filter: ON PK Fc 3350 Hz Gain -1.7 dB Q 1.6
Filter: ON PK Fc 5520 Hz Gain -5.5 dB Q 3.8
Filter: ON PK Fc 8000 Hz Gain 1.1 dB Q 1.4
Filter: ON HSC Fc 10000 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 0.71
Preamp: -14.4 dBHow loud would you have to listen to hear audible distortion in low frequencies? In my experience if you use negative preamp correctly to avoid digital clipping, then there is no problem to boost bass in software EQ with decent headphones. In case of 660S I cannot raise volume high enough to distort before worrying about my hearing. But that's with EDM where whole spectrum is very busy so that might mask sound of distortion.
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This is difficult to answer because it would depend on the level of distortion in the lower frequencies to begin with. And also how much you're raising the bass levels relative to the rest of the frequency spectrum, among other things. Some dynamic headphones may have enough distortion in the bass or lower frequencies that they will sound rather loose, or woolly, or muddy in the bass right out of the box, with no EQ at all!
I don't think Amir has done a review or measurements of the HD 660S yet. (I can't find them anyway.) But here are a few THD plots from his review of the HD 650. The first shows the THD at three different sound pressure levels. This is with no EQ btw...
The 2nd image shows the THD levels before and after the bass was boosted with EQ, measured at the same sound pressure level...
Whether THD is the best way of assessing these characteristics in a perceptual sense is still very much open to debate. So one should take the above info with a little grain of salt. If distortion is higher in the bass to begin with though, then it's only likely to become worse (and more audible) if that area is being boosted compared to the rest of the frequency range.
Clipping would be a different (but also important) type of distortion than what's described above. I think you're absolutely correct to be using a preamp with negative gain to avoid that though, if you're using other EQ filters to boost any portion of the frequency range.... be it bass or otherwise. I understand that most users of open-back headphone will probably be trying to do their boosting in the lower frequencies though, to compensate for the more rolled off response there.
Open headphones (especially dynamic driver headphones) generally have a much harder time achieving good volume levels in the lower frequencies of the bass because they just can't maintain the same level of pressure in their cups as a closed back headphone can. And their drivers may often be deliberately tuned or pushed close to the brink of audible distortion in order just to deliver a rudimentary level of response in the bass frequencies. So that's why I think you need to be a little bit more cautious with how much boosting you do in those lower frequencies with open dynamic headphones.
You probably do not need to be as cautious with open planar magnetics though, because they are often better extended in the lower frequencies to begin with. And may have lower or more uniform distortion in the lower frequencies than some dynamic headphones do.
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If this is the kind of thing that interests you, ie the physics and differences in the way open vs. closed headphones couple and produce sound to the ear, then I'd suggesting reading and/or listening to some of Tyll Hertsen's (of Inner Fidelity) old reviews and headphone presentations (which can be found on YouTube). Because he understood this subject, and could do a much better job of explaining it than I ever could.
It looks like Tyll never got a chance to review the HD 660S, btw. But here are some of his graphs (inlcuding THD+N) for the HD 650 and HD 600 fwiw...
It looks like Tyll never got a chance to review the HD 660S, btw. But here are some of his graphs (inlcuding THD+N) for the HD 650 and HD 600 fwiw...
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Here are some graphs of the weighted harmonic distortion on three Sennheisers by Rtings btw....
HD 650: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/graph#245/7966
HD 660S: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/graph#816/7966
HD 600: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/graph#325/7966
These seem to show less of a rise in distortion in the bass than the ASR and Inner Fidelity graphs above. Since these represent weighted (rather than "total") harmonic distortion though, maybe they are showing something different. (?)
I honestly don't know which of the different types of distortion measurements above (if any) would be the most relevant in terms of human perception.
HD 650: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/graph#245/7966
HD 660S: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/graph#816/7966
HD 600: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/graph#325/7966
These seem to show less of a rise in distortion in the bass than the ASR and Inner Fidelity graphs above. Since these represent weighted (rather than "total") harmonic distortion though, maybe they are showing something different. (?)
I honestly don't know which of the different types of distortion measurements above (if any) would be the most relevant in terms of human perception.
Wow, that's a big bass boost. My go-to track for checking if I've gone too far there is this:
Your -14.4 pregain might prevent clipping here but on my system I'm getting close to running out of headroom here!
For the record, here are the numbers from my HD 660S CamillaDSP config:
freq: 35, gain: 3, q: 1.5, type: Peaking
freq: 100, gain: 6.5, q: 0.71, type: Lowshelf
freq: 210, gain: -2.2, q: 0.8, type: Peaking
freq: 1350, gain: -2.4, q: 1.8, type: Peaking
freq: 1600, gain: 4, q: 0.71, type: Highshelf
freq: 3200, gain: -1.9, q: 1.7, type: Peaking
freq: 5520, gain: -5.5, q: 3.8, type: Peaking
freq: 8000, gain: 3, q: 1.4, type: Peaking
freq: 10000, gain: -1, q: 0.5, type: Highshelf
mastergain: gain: -10
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Based on Oratory's graphs above, the HD 660S only seems to need about a +5 or +6 dB increase in the 40 to 50 Hz range to be close to the levels of some other headphones that would be considered well-extended in the bass. And I think you'd be lucky to get that much of an increase with most open dynamic headphones, without introducing some noticeable distortion in the bass and lower midrange frequencies.
If you're a basshead and not that bothered by distortion in the lower frequencies, then I guess you could try to use a bit more of a boost than that. But it seems like you'd probably be better off using either a closed headphone or planar magnetic headphone at that point. Because it's just not the way open dynamic headphones are designed to work.
There is a reason that most open dynamic headphones are more rolled off in the lower the frequencies. And it's mostly due to the physical limitations in their design, and their inability to maintain the levels of pressure that are necessary to produce a good response in the sub-bass, without also producing unacceptable levels of distortion in that range.
If you're a basshead and not that bothered by distortion in the lower frequencies, then I guess you could try to use a bit more of a boost than that. But it seems like you'd probably be better off using either a closed headphone or planar magnetic headphone at that point. Because it's just not the way open dynamic headphones are designed to work.
There is a reason that most open dynamic headphones are more rolled off in the lower the frequencies. And it's mostly due to the physical limitations in their design, and their inability to maintain the levels of pressure that are necessary to produce a good response in the sub-bass, without also producing unacceptable levels of distortion in that range.
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A negative gain in the preamp of -14 is also going to result in a significant reduction in your system's dynamic range. And maybe also a noticeable increase in its noise floor.
If you really need that much of a reduction to prevent clipping by some of your other EQ filters, then I guess you don't have much choice. But you're going to pay a price in other areas of your system's sound quality in terms of lost dynamic range, and probably also some increased noise. Which would not usually be a good tradeoff imo.
I generally don't use preamp filters much lower than about -5 dB in my setup for this reason. Because the higher you can keep your preamp (or the less you have to reduce it below 0 dBFS), the more dynamic range you'll have to work with, and better signal to noise performance you'll get. This also means that I have to be more judicious in how I'm increasing the levels in other areas of the frequency range with my EQ filters, to avoid any clipping in those areas... Which is a good thing imo.
If you're really having to make such dramatic changes in your system and audio content's response to achieve the kind of sound or response that you want in your headphones, then maybe you should be looking at some other models or kinds of headphones that might be a little more conducive to that type of frequency response out-of-the-box than something like the HD 660S. (?)
If you really need that much of a reduction to prevent clipping by some of your other EQ filters, then I guess you don't have much choice. But you're going to pay a price in other areas of your system's sound quality in terms of lost dynamic range, and probably also some increased noise. Which would not usually be a good tradeoff imo.
I generally don't use preamp filters much lower than about -5 dB in my setup for this reason. Because the higher you can keep your preamp (or the less you have to reduce it below 0 dBFS), the more dynamic range you'll have to work with, and better signal to noise performance you'll get. This also means that I have to be more judicious in how I'm increasing the levels in other areas of the frequency range with my EQ filters, to avoid any clipping in those areas... Which is a good thing imo.
If you're really having to make such dramatic changes in your system and audio content's response to achieve the kind of sound or response that you want in your headphones, then maybe you should be looking at some other models or kinds of headphones that might be a little more conducive to that type of frequency response out-of-the-box than something like the HD 660S. (?)
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To continue with offtopic:
I only used closed headphones in the past (DT 770, M50x, V-Moda M100, Aeon 2 Noire briefly, but didn't like it), but the heat started giving my ears issues so now I'm using open headphones. None of these have rolled off low frequencies, but I still liked to use boosted bass. Especially on DT 700 Pro X which I am currently using.
It's not that I'm having to make any changes, it's that I enjoy using these headphones like that. While I agree you should be careful to push 660S to limits, it applies when listening at ear blasting levels and I don't agree that I should go searching for something else when I clearly enjoy using my gear as is and as I want. JDS Atom Amp (older version, not plus) low gain setting has enough volume range with my 660S EQ and there is no perceived distortion or noise. I mostly listen on fairly low 10 o clock volume dial levels anyway. 660S + Atom low gain 100% volume is very loud, but If I want to go ear blasting levels loud, I actively use 560S and DT 700 Pro X also.
I only used closed headphones in the past (DT 770, M50x, V-Moda M100, Aeon 2 Noire briefly, but didn't like it), but the heat started giving my ears issues so now I'm using open headphones. None of these have rolled off low frequencies, but I still liked to use boosted bass. Especially on DT 700 Pro X which I am currently using.
Rtings THD graphs seem to be a mess, but comparing Amir's 560S and DT 880 600 Ohm, then there is definitely correlation with what I'm hearing and what the graphs show: DT 880 distorts with way lower volume than 560S (I have A30pro also to push DT 880).
This track is uncomfortable with my settings, but sounds like pure sine tone (which is unpleasant by itself) + it's not very busy in the rest of the spectrum so it's emphasized. On the other hand if you listen to Fanu's Siren Song, it has clear bassline which does not sound like pure sine and is much more playful and I like it a lot with my 660S settings.
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