EQ and measuring noob questions

[Marcus Aseth]

Hi guys, I have a very basic question about EQ (I am not too deep into audio, just a gamer trying to improve the music quality) :
I have a pair of Kali lp6-2nd wave and an SVS SB1000 pro hooked to my pc, I've ordered yesterday the mini-DSP Umik1 so that I can measure with REW but there is still one thing that's unclear to me, which is: how do I equalize from PC? Is that possible with some free software and would you recommend it? What I do not understand is if in order to actually apply the equalization, I need to purchase separate hardware. I know the SVS app allows for EQ, but I'm assuming I won't be doing it there because that can handle only up to 200Hz, and if I want to try this "house curve" I hear about, that won't do it.


So that's my main question, although I have some question regarding measuring as well.
In the most general terms I think I have a rough idea of the steps I need to learn about from youtube videos and follow, when I receive the Umik1. But my "roadmap" might be wrong, so I'll list below the steps I think I need to execute in order, and you guys will tell me if I'm missing something important or if the order is wrong. The goal is to have my sub and spekers sound the best as they could in my room when I listen to music.

1)Measure Left & Right Speakers together
2)Measure the sub and volume match it to the speakers by changing the Gain in the SVS app
3)Measure all together
4)Move the Sub in a different spot and repeat 2 and 3, the final position of the subwoofer will be the Full range measurement that looks better
5)Use REW to figure out the correct Phase setting for the Sub (I still need to look some videotutorial about this)
6)Let REW generate the correct EQ for an house curve
7)Apply the file generate by REW...somewhere...

 

[Rednaxela]

Check out Equalizer APO.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Hi guys, I have a very basic question about EQ (I am not too deep into audio, just a gamer trying to improve the music quality) :
I have a pair of Kali lp6-2nd wave and an SVS SB1000 pro hooked to my pc, I've ordered yesterday the mini-DSP Umik1 so that I can measure with REW but there is still one thing that's unclear to me, which is: how do I equalize from PC? Is that possible with some free software and would you recommend it? What I do not understand is if in order to actually apply the equalization, I need to purchase separate hardware. I know the SVS app allows for EQ, but I'm assuming I won't be doing it there because that can handle only up to 200Hz, and if I want to try this "house curve" I hear about, that won't do it.


So that's my main question, although I have some question regarding measuring as well.
In the most general terms I think I have a rough idea of the steps I need to learn about from youtube videos and follow, when I receive the Umik1. But my "roadmap" might be wrong, so I'll list below the steps I think I need to execute in order, and you guys will tell me if I'm missing something important or if the order is wrong. The goal is to have my sub and spekers sound the best as they could in my room when I listen to music.

1)Measure Left & Right Speakers together
2)Measure the sub and volume match it to the speakers by changing the Gain in the SVS app
3)Measure all together
4)Move the Sub in a different spot and repeat 2 and 3, the final position of the subwoofer will be the Full range measurement that looks better
5)Use REW to figure out the correct Phase setting for the Sub (I still need to look some videotutorial about this)
6)Let REW generate the correct EQ for an house curve
7)Apply the file generate by REW...somewhere...

I'd say you need to work on the phase setting for each sub in step 2, and step 3. Varying the phase will vary how the combined speakers measure. So look at the step 3 result after altering phase and see which setting gives smoothest result.

As for how to apply EQ that are many ways to do that. You might add a MiniDSP for instance or as suggested try Equalizer APO. Its free and good place to start to you get some experience doing this.

 

[Marcus Aseth]

I'd say you need to work on the phase setting for each sub in step 2, and step 3. Varying the phase will vary how the combined speakers measure. So look at the step 3 result after altering phase and see which setting gives smoothest result.

I've seen a youtube video where it shows one of the tools in REW that give you the optimal predicted delay you need to input in your MiniDSP (for example) to time match the sub and the speakers, there is any way to translate that to a number of degrees I can input in the phase setting of the SVS app?

 

[MCH]

Hey Marcus, what soundcard/dac are you using between your pc and subs/mains?
If you are passing the signal through the subs to the mains, i understand the svs doesn't have high pass filter... i might be wrong, but that's what i have read a couple of times...

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Hey Marcus, what soundcard/dac are you using between your pc and subs/mains?
If you are passing the signal through the subs to the mains, i understand the svs doesn't have high pass filter... i might be wrong, but that's what i have read a couple of times...

it doesn't, however it has a low pass filter.
I'm not using any dac, the chain is PC->audio interface (umc22) -> subwoofer -> speakers

 

[MCH]

it doesn't, however it has a low pass filter.
I'm not using any dac, the chain is PC->audio interface (umc22) -> subwoofer -> speakers

Ah ok, then i guess uou need to adapt that low pass to the natural decay of your speakers. Have you checked the minidsp flex reviewed here? It is costly but would allow you to do everything you need in one box and without computer if needed.

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Ah ok, then i guess uou need to adapt that low pass to the natural decay of your speakers. Have you checked the minidsp flex reviewed here? It is costly but would allow you to do everything you need in one box and without computer if needed.

thanks for the suggestion, but doesn't seems like something I need, unless there is some major benefit in using it over Equalizer APO.
But back to the phase question:

I've seen a youtube video where it shows one of the tools in REW that give you the optimal predicted delay you need to input in your MiniDSP (for example) to time match the sub and the speakers, there is any way to translate that to a number of degrees I can input in the phase setting of the SVS app?

Or, how would I find the correct phase setting for the SVS app using REW?

 

[Marcus Aseth]

Hi guys, Finally received my umik 1, did my measuring, moved stuff around, did the EQ using REW and EQ APO and now my system sounds immensely better
Although REW automatically generated 11 filters for the EQ, if I where to do it manually I think I could get a good (or better!) result using less, the only thing I'm missing is a graphic interface in which I can see a preview of the filter I'm making so that I can get back an exact Gain and QFactor values for the correction I need. Does REW have anything like that, or I need some separate tools to do my EQ manually?

To be more clear, I want something like the EQ in the SVS app, in which you see changing in real-time the curve of the correction you're making as you slide the parameters

 

[Rednaxela]

In REW you can inspect and adjust the generated filters, and their predicted effect then changes accordingly. Is that what you mean?

 

[Rednaxela]

EQ Filters

 

[mdsimon2]

thanks for the suggestion, but doesn't seems like something I need, unless there is some major benefit in using it over Equalizer APO.
But back to the phase question:

Or, how would I find the correct phase setting for the SVS app using REW?

Using a 4 channel DAC for a 2.1 system has some major advantages over a 2 channel DAC, namely the ability to delay and apply PEQs / x-overs to each channel independently. This helps greatly with sub integration.

Flex is one of the best options if you want built in DSP and good I/O functionality but a 4 channel DAC like a Behringer UMC204D or a MOTU M4 would do just as well with software DSP like Equalizer APO.

Michael

 

[Marcus Aseth]

In REW you can inspect and adjust the generated filters, and their predicted effect then changes accordingly. Is that what you mean?

Maybe, as you change those parameters by hand you see the prediction changing realtime? It might be what I need, I will try ^_^ (unfortunately is 2 AM now and I'm dying to measure x_x)

Although, a thing I've noticed is that the prediction in the high frequencies ended up being actually far from the measured reality after EQ... the way I am doing it was to measure the whole system in a single measurement (Left + Right + Sub) and then Equalize on that measurement, is that correct? I've read on a random youtube video comment that you should instead measure the 2 speakers separately because of comb filtering, but I didn't understood the meaning of the comment.
Does it means
A) I need to do 3 separate measurements for "Left, Right, Sub" average the result into a single measurement and Equalize on that to have it follow the house curve
or
B) I need to do 3 separate measurements for "Left, Right, Sub" and Equalize each one individually having each following the house curve
or
C) It means something else
??

Using a 4 channel DAC for a 2.1 system has some major advantages over a 2 channel DAC, namely the ability to delay and apply PEQs / x-overs to each channel independently. This helps greatly with sub integration.

I am not sure I am understanding the importance of the advantages you mention, I am thinking it wouldn't matter for Left and Right speaker because they are placed to the same distance and symmetrical inside the room and the Sub delay can be controlled from the SVS app through the Phase setting, so what advantage would I get from it exactly?

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Final note: this is strange, but I've noticed that if I measure Left and Right speaker separately, they appear to be relatively flat in the high region, but when I measure them together, it makes the whole high region measurement dip, like if I remember correctly, with Var smoothing ON, was maybe a dip "crater" from 3k to 10k Hz going down as much as 10dB - I'll measure this again and show you guys in the morning, but is this normal? Is boosting that back through a very large EQ filter the best solution?

 

[mdsimon2]

I am not sure I am understanding the importance of the advantages you mention, I am thinking it wouldn't matter for Left and Right speaker because they are placed to the same distance and symmetrical inside the room and the Sub delay can be controlled from the SVS app through the Phase setting, so what advantage would I get from it exactly?

A main / sub crossover is all about getting good acoustical alignment on each side of the crossover. Achieving this alignment typically involves applying some amount of high pass filter or PEQ to the mains to achieve an acoustical response that you can match with the low pass filter from the sub. Also, not sure what your setup looks like but subs with DSP typically have some amount of delay so it is advantageous to account for this delay by delaying the mains by the same amount. This may not be an issue if everything is routed through your sub. In general the phase control on your sub is an adjustable all pass filter which does not give you that much control.

Michael

 

[Marcus Aseth]

In general the phase control on your sub is an adjustable all pass filter which does not give you that much control.

Michael

I know people say "set the phase so that the sound from the sub together with the mains is the highest at the crossover point" but contrary to that, I'm using the phase setting as a "wildcard EQ filter" - meaning, since is actually changing drastically the frequency response of the whole system when measured together, I'm essentially taking something like 10 measurements spread from Phase 0° to Phase 180° and then keeping the one that actually minimizes peaks and nulls in the bass region, which isn't necessarily the one with the loudest sound at the crossover
Is it ok to use it that way or I'm doing something really dumb? xD

 

[mdsimon2]

I know people say "set the phase so that the sound from the sub together with the mains is the highest at the crossover point" but contrary to that, I'm using the phase setting as a "wildcard EQ filter" - meaning, since is actually changing drastically the frequency response of the whole system when measured together, I'm essentially taking something like 10 measurements spread from Phase 0° to Phase 180° and then keeping the one that actually minimizes peaks and nulls, which isn't necessarily the one with the loudest sound at the crossover
Is that an ok way to use it?

That is how I would use it, optimize for the smoothest response.

Michael