endgame system with kef reference 3 meta and bacch4mac

[Defi]

The main benefit of BACCH on most accounts is dramatically improved spatial effects with stereo recordings, especially those recorded in natural acoustic spaces. Multichannel is great, but BACCH does things with two-channel recordings that matrixed multichannel cannot. When crosstalk is canceled by as little as 6 dB (every additional 2-3 dB yields dramatic improvements in my experience), interaural level and timing cues become "unmasked," and the result is vastly increased specificity and, if present on the recording, spaciousness. It has considerable practical drawbacks, but the benefits, especially for classical music recordings, are indisputable.

So for someone that primarily listens to studio recordings would you say it would not be very worthwhile?

 

[tifune]

So for someone that primarily listens to studio recordings would you say it would not be very worthwhile?

"Worthwhile" is challenging because it's subjective, but as someone who owns the product I would say it's not worthwhile if the cost is painful to bear. Posted above is software only, you still need a Mac and RME interface to get it all going.

All of that is on top of having a properly optimized 2.x system. uBACCH gets you about 75% of the way for a lower cost and more flexible integration

 

[Dialectic]

I'm in the process of trying this with the 8Cs.

UPDATE: Tried a narrow nearfield setup with the 8Cs/BACCH. No improvement in XTC versus a more conventional triangular stereo layout. There was, however, improvement in bass response because of changed room interactions.

Apologies for getting off-topic

 

[delta76]

Nothing in your list gives you time of flight compensation for integrating subs w/ mains. With D&D, maybe Ascilab C8C, you probably don't need subs.

I don't get why people would buy Kef Reference over Genelec Ones or AsciLab C8C (when available) except aesthetics. But measurements suggest they sound great

because it's actually great? https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/KEF Reference 3 Meta/KEF/index_vendor-v2-20230503.html
in my mind until a threshold of pref score, performance alone is quite irrelevant. How you like the brand, the look, availability and support will take over as the deciding factors.

for OT:
- You don't need topping pre 90, or even topping d90le. both do not support dual sub
- Buying Ref 3 Meta AND a dual big sub is a waste of money. But if you have to have it, what do I have to say

 

[STC]

Yes. The idea is that you must suppress side wall reflections as much as you can. Beamy speakers, set up speakers on the long wall, and treat reflections. Maybe @STC can chime in with what else you need to do. Maybe an Ambiophonics type setup with the speakers close together with a narrow listening triangle.

Thanks Keith for the mention.

Not sure what is meant by ‘beamy speakers’ here, but I can say something about the choice of speakers were based on what actual practical experience revealed. That’s the reason they say keep away from the wall, but in my opinion and from experiments, it works even in my bathroom which is wall-to-wall tiled. Of course, your other spatial information gets buried with room acoustics.

Ambiophonics, like in CTXMatrix, works with any type of speaker. In theory, the MBL Radialstrahler was supposed to be ideal, but when Ralph Glasgal began his research, it turned out not to be the best—compared to the Acoustat. Line array (or source array) ESL speakers like Sanders and Sound Lab proved superior for cancellation. In my own setup, Harbeths performed fine in my room—I’d say they were as good as the Sound Labs. BAcch also should work well with Kef. The core idea of XTC is to unlock the true potential of an existing stereo system, not to hinder adoption by forcing major changes to a well-set-up stereo configuration.

 

[Dan]

Just tried out ubacch trial today with my R3 metas with dual Svs subs which is coincidental. I’m definitely going to buy the Mac version. On some recordings the effect is minimal but doesn’t negatively affect anything. When the recording is more optimal the effect is amazing. The sound field is massive extending to the boundaries of the room and placement of voices and instruments are “3d”. It’s very very enjoyable and hard to believe it’s coming from 2 speakers. I’m all in

The one negative is the head in a vice. Everything collapses with little movement of the ears. Head tracking capability ameliorates this I assume

 

[Dialectic]

The one negative is the head in a vice. Everything collapses with little movement of the ears. Head tracking capability ameliorates this I assume

Correct