endgame system with kef reference 3 meta and bacch4mac

[kckfbfbfkkxxkxk]

im planning my endgame system:

kef reference 3 meta
dual svs sb5000 revolution
apollonaudio Purifi 1ET9040BA monoblocks
topping pre 90
topping d90le
bacch4mac audiophile + with orc

is there any bottleneck or are there better solitions maybe?

 

[PristineSound]

im planning my endgame system:

kef reference 3 meta
dual svs sb5000 revolution
apollonaudio Purifi 1ET9040BA monoblocks
topping pre 90
topping d90le
bacch4mac audiophile + with orc

is there any bottleneck or are there better solitions maybe?

Bacch is available on the Dutch&Dutch.

With the amount of money you are spending, you can probably get the D&D 8c.

I would get the 8c but I personally have few issues with active speakers (despite I own the Neumann KH120II DSP) is that all the electronics are inside, so any future repairs are 100% dependent on the active speaker manufacturers.

The D&D using active cooling, so there's a fan inside, over time, dust can accumulate and not to mention the fan noise, yes I know some will say it's inaudible at listening distance. Also, there are many reports of the 8c cabinet cracking.

 

[Defi]

I would just get a DAC with a volume control instead of a pre and DAC. I don't know much about bacch but it seems like it has some qualities that boost its efficacy, one of which being very directional speakers. I would consider something like D&D 8C if that's the case. Hell, I would consider those speakers above most options regardless at this price point.

Edit: I didn't even see the post above me.

 

[kckfbfbfkkxxkxk]

Bacch is available on the Dutch&Dutch.

With the amount of money you are spending, you can probably get the D&D 8c.

I would get the 8c but I personally have few issues with active speakers (despite I own the Neumann KH120II DSP) is that all the electronics are inside, so any future repairs are 100% dependent on the active speaker manufacturers.

The D&D using active cooling, so there's a fan inside, over time, dust can accumulate and not to mention the fan noise, yes I know some will say it's inaudible at listening distance. Also, there are many reports of the 8c cabinet cracking.

thanks for the suggesttion. but aesthetics also are very important to me i dont really like how the d&d look. and i also dont really like active speakers like you

 

[kckfbfbfkkxxkxk]

I would just get a DAC with a volume control instead of a pre and DAC. I don't know much about bacch but it seems like it has some qualities that boost its efficacy, one of which being very directional speakers. I would consider something like D&D 8C if that's the case. Hell, I would consider those speakers above most options regardless at this price point.

Edit: I didn't even see the post above me.

are they really better than the kef?

 

[PristineSound]

thanks for the suggesttion. but aesthetics also are very important to me i dont really like how the d&d look. and i also dont really like active speakers like you

Got it. Then here is my feedback based on your propose system.

• You don't need the mono blocks. Get the Apollon dual mono in one chassis, unless you want the looks of monoblocks.
• Don't get the Topping Pre90, it only have one pair of balance output. And if you have two subs, you will need two pairs.

 

[Defi]

are they really better than the kef?

I haven't heard either, but in my experience I can't imagine getting a much better sound in my room than what I already have except for dealing with room modes above 100Hz and addressing sub 100Hz decay. So a cardioid speaker is the thing I believe would make the biggest difference in both regards. BACCH isn't on my radar but with that in the picture it makes a strong case for you in that regard.

The way I see it, below 100Hz is very easy to solve with subs + DSP. 100Hz to whatever schroeder freq takes less amp power to solve but you can't use the benefit of delocalized subwoofers to address the modes, so cardioid theoretically is the best solution here. Above that there are tons of speakers that perform exceptionally. Further improvement might be cardioid as low as possible, so that through not needing to use multiple subs you avoid excessive decay? Not really sure, and I digress.

The short answer is that speakers are damn good these days and the biggest difference is going to be in be in their directionality and room interaction. BACCH seems to favour something like the 8c. I don't think you'll get the KEF and feel sad though. I am a believer that it is okay to have the looks and the whole package be a part of the experience. If you think the KEF are what you want that would be a damn good speaker.

So does BACCH negate the use of any other correction? Is it something you want on all the time? Is it run on an OS where your music source will also be? I'm just wondering about the DAC. Because if BACCH is only suitable for one person listening and you want to share the joy, you might want more basic room correction for those moments. Now if you're doing everything on mac/pc/pi or what have you then there are plenty of cheap solutions for DSP. But as mentioned you will want 4 outputs for a 2.2 system.

 

[kckfbfbfkkxxkxk]

Got it. Then here is my feedback based on your propose system.

• You don't need the mono blocks. Get the Apollon dual mono in one chassis, unless you want the looks of monoblocks.
• Don't get the Topping Pre90, it only have one pair of balance output. And if you have two subs, you will need two pairs.

i thought i would use the monoblocks so i can have longer xlr cables and than very short loudspeaker cables. i know it wont make an audible difference but its just a psychological thing for me. with the topping i would use the rca out for the subs maybe left to the left sub and vice versa or use 2 y-splitter and send the full signal to both subs

 

[PristineSound]

i thought i would use the monoblocks so i can have longer xlr cables and than very short loudspeaker cables. i know it wont make an audible difference but its just a psychological thing for me. with the topping i would use the rca out for the subs maybe left to the left sub and vice versa or use 2 y-splitter and send the full signal to both subs

Why would you be concern of using a longer XLR cable to go with dual mono, then not be concern with using single ended for your subs?

 

[kckfbfbfkkxxkxk]

I haven't heard either, but in my experience I can't imagine getting a much better sound in my room than what I already have except for dealing with room modes above 100Hz and addressing sub 100Hz decay. So a cardioid speaker is the thing I believe would make the biggest difference in both regards. BACCH isn't on my radar but with that in the picture it makes a strong case for you in that regard.

The way I see it, below 100Hz is very easy to solve with subs + DSP. 100Hz to whatever schroeder freq takes less amp power to solve but you can't use the benefit of delocalized subwoofers to address the modes, so cardioid theoretically is the best solution here. Above that there are tons of speakers that perform exceptionally. Further improvement might be cardioid as low as possible, so that through not needing to use multiple subs you avoid excessive decay? Not really sure, and I digress.

The short answer is that speakers are damn good these days and the biggest difference is going to be in be in their directionality and room interaction. BACCH seems to favour something like the 8c. I don't think you'll get the KEF and feel sad though. I am a believer that it is okay to have the looks and the whole package be a part of the experience. If you think the KEF are what you want that would be a damn good speaker.

I haven't heard either, but in my experience I can't imagine getting a much better sound in my room than what I already have except for dealing with room modes above 100Hz and addressing sub 100Hz decay. So a cardioid speaker is the thing I believe would make the biggest difference in both regards. BACCH isn't on my radar but with that in the picture it makes a strong case for you in that regard.

The way I see it, below 100Hz is very easy to solve with subs + DSP. 100Hz to whatever schroeder freq takes less amp power to solve but you can't use the benefit of delocalized subwoofers to address the modes, so cardioid theoretically is the best solution here. Above that there are tons of speakers that perform exceptionally. Further improvement might be cardioid as low as possible, so that through not needing to use multiple subs you avoid excessive decay? Not really sure, and I digress.

The short answer is that speakers are damn good these days and the biggest difference is going to be in be in their directionality and room interaction. BACCH seems to favour something like the 8c. I don't think you'll get the KEF and feel sad though. I am a believer that it is okay to have the looks and the whole package be a part of the experience. If you think the KEF are what you want that would be a damn good speaker.

So does BACCH negate the use of any other correction? Is it something you want on all the time? Is it run on an OS where your music source will also be? I'm just wondering about the DAC. Because if BACCH is only suitable for one person listening and you want to share the joy, you might want more basic room correction for those moments. Now if you're doing everything on mac/pc/pi or what have you then there are plenty of cheap solutions for DSP. But as mentioned you will want 4 outputs for a 2.2 system.

i will be using bacch the intire time. maybe i use a streaemer as a source going into the babyface pro fs included in bacch4mac or use the mac as a streamer. the signal will go over usb to the topping dac. until now i have just heard the ubacch plugin but it was very fascinating. i cant picture my endgame system without it. maybe you can try the 14 day free trial of the ubacch plugin. you wont regret it. it is like going from 2d to 3d listening ( im not even exaggerating. for me its like a new dimension to the experience of audio similar to going from mono to stereo.

 

[Defi]

I mean I'll try anything for free. I would have to setup some pathway on my laptop to route through the VST but that was a long term goal anyway.... so I might just try it.

 

[kckfbfbfkkxxkxk]

Why would you be concern of using a longer XLR cable to go with dual mono, then not be concern with using single ended for your subs?

i think because in my philosophy the signal going to the subs is not that important. i will set the low pass very low(40-50hz) and i dont believe you can hear fine changes at that frequencies. but you could also use y-xlr splitters from the xlr out and send the balanced signal to both monoblocks and subs. idk i havent thought everything trough.

 

[kckfbfbfkkxxkxk]

I mean I'll try anything for free. I would have to setup some pathway on my laptop to route through the VST but that was a long term goal anyway.... so I might just try it.

nice! i used blackhole 2ch to route the signal ob my mac. would be interesting to hear your thoughts on in later

 

[Defi]

nice! i used blackhole 2ch to route the signal ob my mac. would be interesting to hear your thoughts on in later

Yes I had bookmarked that somewhere. Blackhole and Hang Loose host. Well now I have a project.

 

[tifune]

Nothing in your list gives you time of flight compensation for integrating subs w/ mains. With D&D, maybe Ascilab C8C, you probably don't need subs.

I don't get why people would buy Kef Reference over Genelec Ones or AsciLab C8C (when available) except aesthetics. But measurements suggest they sound great

 

[SteveC]

All I can add is that I've been very happy with my KEF R3's (not Meta) and a pair of SVS 1000 Pro subs.

 

[kckfbfbfkkxxkxk]

Nothing in your list gives you time of flight compensation for integrating subs w/ mains.

I don't get why people would buy Kef Reference over Genelec Ones or AsciLab C8C (when available) except aesthetics. But measurements suggest they sound great

yes, i havend figured out how to integrate subs properly. i could do it with the bacch software but than id have to use digital volume control and i really would like to control the volume over the pre90. and yes i choose the kef mainly becauee of aesthetics and because i somehow dont want aktive speakers also because than all the gear i chose and like would be completly redundant

 

[tifune]

yes, i havend figured out how to integrate subs properly. i could do it with the bacch software but than id have to use digital volume control and i really would like to control the volume over the pre90. and yes i choose the kef mainly becauee of aesthetics and because i somehow dont want aktive speakers also because than all the gear i chose and like would be completly redundant

There's no way to do delay compensation in the Batch software, unfortunately. That would be nice, especially at such a high price.

As far as redundancy, going solely by public street price you could buy 3x 8351B and just use 2 of them

 

[Defi]

I just saw Bacch orc for room correction. I'm still not sure how sub integration would be handled with them though. If you're already hosting VSTs it would be no problem to import filters generated from MSO to integrate subs, but you would still need a DAC with 4 outputs and I don't really see why there would be any reason not to get one (Hell, I'd go 8 and get a okto dac8pro if it were me).

There is a lot to digest looking into all the bacch stuff.

 

[tifune]

I just saw Bacch orc for room correction. I'm still not sure how sub integration would be handled with them though. If you're already hosting VSTs it would be no problem to import filters generated from MSO to integrate subs, but you would still need a DAC with 4 outputs and I don't really see why there would be any reason not to get one (Hell, I'd go 8 and get a okto dac8pro if it were me).

There is a lot to digest looking into all the bacch stuff.

ORC cannot do sub integration, and as of v15 B4M doesn't work reliably with BlackHole and HangLoose. Something like MiniDSP is needed. At this price point, is be looking at hardware including ART (which is rumored to be coming out for Mac this year)