Endgame passive bookshelf shootout: KEF Reference 1 Meta vs. Ascilab S6B

[Jonazkur]

I like that Ascilab, while they also use OEM drivers, do additional modifications like adding custom waveguides and acoustic lens to improve the performance. The Satori driver on the Sointuva would benefit from a custom acoustic lens on top of the tweeter to broaden the dispersion in the higher frequencies.

I also value that ascilab makes and designs its own waveguides. I dont see so much value personally in march audio bcouse that exactly same speaker would be pretty easy to diy much cheaper.

 

[Matias]

And like my amp, I value that it is mostly off the shelf components that I can buy and replace myself if needed without depending on the manufacturer if he is still producing the parts.

 

[Jonazkur]

And like my amp, I value that it is mostly off the shelf components that I can buy and replace myself if needed without depending on the manufacturer if he is still producing the parts.

That is true tho.

 

[AudioJester]

Just watch out for cracking cabinets!

In all seriousness the Sointuva is a very impressive speaker. Seems to have become more expensive, although the price I waz quoted might have been a show price.

@Goldhamster916 what have you decided?

 

[ZööZ]

Might I add these for the shoot out as Erin seems to consider them bookshelf speakers

"

• High-performance bookshelf speaker for music-focused systems but also can be used for home theater purposes (though a dedicated center channel will be challenging to find)
• Listeners prioritizing tonal balance, bass extension, high SPL capability and controlled directivity "
  
  

Audio First Cadentia 3 Speaker Review

Audio First Cadentia 3 Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[Goldhamster916]

Thanks for the suggestion. Good speaker but wouldn’t consider them for ästhetics reasons.

Just watch out for cracking cabinets!

In all seriousness the Sointuva is a very impressive speaker. Seems to have become more expensive, although the price I waz quoted might have been a show price.

@Goldhamster916 what have you decided?

I really don’t know . I would probably handle the 20-30hz range by a subwoofer alone and let the subwoofer otherwise just fill in nulls of the main speakers via Dirac art. So I do like the increased output of the S6B between 30-40 hertz a lot, although the KEF might just be enough in that range with room gain. I like the frequency response and horizontal radiation profile of the S6B a bit more than the KEF. However the KEF would fit way better ästhetically in my room and maybe the coax gives a slight advantage in imaging. On top I already have ls50 Metas and Kef atmos speakers for Surround/height so maybe a bit more consistency there with panning sound effects. But then again the S6B costs at least 2k less even when buying the KEF used. As you can see still in Analysis paralysis. I almost wish the ascilab wouldn’t exist, before I was just so happy and certain about getting the KEF . I hope I find a way to have them both at home at the same time.

I appreciate you all taking the time to respond. Further discussion is of course appreciated!

 

[AudioJester]

Thanks for the suggestion. Good speaker but wouldn’t consider them for ästhetics reasons.



I really don’t know . I would probably handle the 20-30hz range by a subwoofer alone and let the subwoofer otherwise just fill in nulls of the main speakers via Dirac art. So I do like the increased output of the S6B between 30-40 hertz a lot, although the KEF might just be enough in that range with room gain. I like the frequency response and horizontal radiation profile of the S6B a bit more than the KEF. However the KEF would fit way better ästhetically in my room and maybe the coax gives a slight advantage in imaging. On top I already have ls50 Metas and Kef atmos speakers for Surround/height so maybe a bit more consistency there with panning sound effects. But then again the S6B costs at least 2k less even when buying the KEF used. As you can see still in Analysis paralysis. I almost wish the ascilab wouldn’t exist, before I was just so happy and certain about getting the KEF . I hope I find a way to have them both at home at the same time.

I appreciate you all taking the time to respond. Further discussion is of course appreciated!

Not sure if discussed before, but if your looking at Ascilab the C8C is close to the S6B price wise - its active cardioid with very low distortion.

Personally I would save the 2k and use it for 1 or 2 more subs.

 

[Luvchampagne]

Not sure if discussed before, but if your looking at Ascilab the C8C is close to the S6B price wise - its active cardioid with very low distortion.

Personally I would save the 2k and use it for 1 or 2 more subs.

The C8c is in a different class when auditioning A vs. B. Much more like a tower than a bookshelf. Obviously if you're going to use a subwoofer then there's less difference. Having said that, the S6B is a superb speaker.

 

[Goldhamster916]

The C8c is in a different class when auditioning A vs. B. Much more like a tower than a bookshelf. Obviously if you're going to use a subwoofer then there's less difference. Having said that, the S6B is a superb speaker

i appreciate the suggestion. i am aware that the C8C might even be superior to both due to its cardioid design. however it would be more distracting next to my high end tv due to its form factor and, more importantly, i intend to keep the next speaker for decades and therefore i would rather choose a passive speaker. I know this might be conservative buit i really like the idea that a speaker can outlive me ( i am 34) which is less likely with active designs.

I envy you to have listened to both already. Have you heard other high end bookshelfs in the past? (any kefs by chance?). Can you draw any comparisons/conclusions from that audition?

 

[Luvchampagne]

i appreciate the suggestion. i am aware that the C8C might even be superior to both due to its cardioid design. however it would be more distracting next to my high end tv due to its form factor and, more importantly, i intend to keep the next speaker for decades and therefore i would rather choose a passive speaker. I know this might be conservative buit i really like the idea that a speaker can outlive me ( i am 34) which is less likely with active designs.

I envy you to have listened to both already. Have you heard other high end bookshelfs in the past? (any kefs by chance?). Can you draw any comparisons/conclusions from that audition?

Understood. I'm in the same position as you. I understand the superiority of actives but I worry about the longer term maintenance. Drivers are bad enough. But plate amps are even worse. I've gone through more than 10 plate amp failures in my subwoofers over a 30 year span. It will happen. Not an if. If I did an active I would strongly prefer the use of off the shelf exterior components so I could maintain them.
Having said that, if you're 34 and passionate about audio then, IMHO, I would strongly guess you will be changing or adding a different set of speakers in your lifetime. I would recommend you not use that as the measuring stick. 10 years? That's pretty good. More than that at 34? Not so much. You're more than likely going to live in multiple different living situations between now and when audio becomes less of a passion. Your room and lifestyle will dictate a different speaker. Just my humble opinion.
My current ref setup are Salon2 so I have a preference for larger speakers in my larger room

I have not had the opportunity to listen to super high end KEF or TAD other than at shows. My bedroom setup are older M&k S1c monitors with subs. In a smaller room at lower volume they are quite enjoyable. More precise. More exact imaging. But move your head 6 inches either way and it becomes annoying as you lose that precision.

Sorry. No comparisons or conclusions.

 

[Goldhamster916]

Understood. I'm in the same position as you. I understand the superiority of actives but I worry about the longer term maintenance. Drivers are bad enough. But plate amps are even worse. I've gone through more than 10 plate amp failures in my subwoofers over a 30 year span. It will happen. Not an if. If I did an active I would strongly prefer the use of off the shelf exterior components so I could maintain them.
Having said that, if you're 34 and passionate about audio then, IMHO, I would strongly guess you will be changing or adding a different set of speakers in your lifetime. I would recommend you not use that as the measuring stick. 10 years? That's pretty good. More than that at 34? Not so much. You're more than likely going to live in multiple different living situations between now and when audio becomes less of a passion. Your room and lifestyle will dictate a different speaker. Just my humble opinion.
My current ref setup are Salon2 so I have a preference for larger speakers in my larger room

I have not had the opportunity to listen to super high end KEF or TAD other than at shows. My bedroom setup are older M&k S1c monitors with subs. In a smaller room at lower volume they are quite enjoyable. More precise. More exact imaging. But move your head 6 inches either way and it becomes annoying as you lose that precision.

Sorry. No comparisons or conclusions.

I appreciate the answer.
I would maybe consider genelec due to their track record but thats about it in the active space. Ascilab obviously doesent have the track record yet.
I agree with you that there is a high chance i will change speakers again in the future. Yeah maybe the plan is rather to keep it untill something distinctively better is avaible. A passive cardioid KEF reference 1 with purify bass driver would be my personal dream. or a passive cardioid mini blade.

I rather meant how you liked the S6B compared to (higher end) speakers you heard in the past? Where did you audition them? in south korea? Thanks for any insights

 

[Luvchampagne]

I appreciate the answer.
I would maybe consider genelec due to their track record but thats about it in the active space. Ascilab obviously doesent have the track record yet.
I agree with you that there is a high chance i will change speakers again in the future. Yeah maybe the plan is rather to keep it untill something distinctively better is avaible. A passive cardioid KEF reference 1 with purify bass driver would be my personal dream. or a passive cardioid mini blade.

I rather meant how you liked the S6B compared to (higher end) speakers you heard in the past? Where did you audition them? in south korea? Thanks for any insights

Yes. Heard the S6b and c8c in Korea. Also f6b and c6b.
Hard to compare S6B to other non ASCilab speakers as this was a dedicated listening room.
The C8C and S6B definitely have great dynamic range. My iPhone decibel app exceeded 100db and then some.

 

[Goldhamster916]

Yes. Heard the S6b and c8c in Korea. Also f6b and c6b.
Hard to compare S6B to other non ASCilab speakers as this was a dedicated listening room.
The C8C and S6B definitely have great dynamic range. My iPhone decibel app exceeded 100db and then some.

That is good to know. I wondered if the KEF due to its three way nature might run into less issues on high output levels compared to the S6B. It’s really hard to comprehend how such a small 2 way speaker (it’s even a third smaller than the Kef) can play at such volumes. Those purify drivers and the ascilab construction is really a something special. I hope I can hear them one day.

 

[geox]

I appreciate the answer.
I would maybe consider genelec due to their track record but thats about it in the active space. Ascilab obviously doesent have the track record yet.
I agree with you that there is a high chance i will change speakers again in the future. Yeah maybe the plan is rather to keep it untill something distinctively better is avaible. A passive cardioid KEF reference 1 with purify bass driver would be my personal dream. or a passive cardioid mini blade.

I rather meant how you liked the S6B compared to (higher end) speakers you heard in the past? Where did you audition them? in south korea? Thanks for any insights

Are there any passive cardioid speakers? If yes would those be perfect to deal with sbir.

Kef reference or Asciilab S6B are going to suffer from sbir and room. At some point , room reflections makes more difference than how than specific speaker characteristics.

 

[John.D]

I know the discussion for bookshelf speakers but why not look at Mofi around same price range? Erin has Mofi in his all time best recommendations.

 

[Goldhamster916]

Are there any passive cardioid speakers? If yes would those be perfect to deal with sbir.

Kef reference or Asciilab S6B are going to suffer from sbir and room. At some point , room reflections makes more difference than how than specific speaker characteristics.

There is the amphion krypton 3x which costs 20k and I am not sure how that one performance otherwise. I think I have seen one other one time but I am not sure. I wish there was a larger market for passive cardioid. A passive cardioid mini blade would be my dream.

I know the discussion for bookshelf speakers but why not look at Mofi around same price range? Erin has Mofi in his all time best recommendations.

I did consider them and they are indeed very nice. I don’t really need such a large floorstander for my set up (I am sitting close to a large tv) and the Kef and ascilab are just a little closer to perfection otherwise. Thank you though!

 

[AudioJester]

I think its harder to fix or replace a passive crossover than a hypex plate amp. But yeah, the plate amp will not last as long

 

[Matias]

I also prefer passives for longevity reasons. Having said that, actives based on Hypex Fusion plate amps are also modular, and the amp itself is a regular NCxxxMP. Very easy to disconnect, unscrew and replace if needed. More so than other custom amp actives (I also own Neumann speakers).

 

[Sokel]

...at the finest DIY tradition

(I had no much love for KEF but now I do! )

 

[Jazigo]

View attachment 511221

...at the finest DIY tradition

(I had no much love for KEF but now I do! )

You can digg into a bit further here:

It seems that they want to change from voltage to current amplifiers and use the VECO technology as a replacement for the damping factor in a voltage amplifier.