Endgame passive bookshelf shootout: KEF Reference 1 Meta vs. Ascilab S6B

[Goldhamster916]

Hello everyone,

which one, is in your opinion, the overall better speaker and why? Which one would you pick?



KEF Reference 1 Meta: ported 3 way design (coaxial plus woofer)
dimensions: 44x20x42cm

Ascilab S6B: 2 way using purify woofer and tweeter plus passive radiators
dimensions: 40x22x30cm

---->Reference 1 is quite a bit larger


I could not find any compression data for the S6B.

Unfortunately there is currently no option to demo the S6B in europe. I heard the reference 1 multiple times and it sounded great to me.
Since i intend to keep these for life (fingers crossed) and will probably move a lot in the future i make the decision quite independent of the room. I value engeenering and performance even beyond audible benefits.
Money is not a concern, i just want the best passive bookshelf i can find. if you can think of any better passive bookshelfs let me know.

I am curious about your input.

thanks in advance for taking your time to respond!

 

[solderdude]

The choice might come down to looks, price, dimensions, longevity of used parts, aftermarket support 10 years or more if something happens to one (or both) speakers.

Most likely sound/performance wise these 2 options might not be that far apart that choosing one over the other will not be a regrettable choice.

 

[Descartes]

I have KEF Reference One Meta and love them!

 

[Karmacoma]

Well the simple fact that you can basically make a 5.1 ascilab system for the price of 2 reference 1 is pretty amazing. Reference 1's are in C8C + BX8's territory pricewise, the latter would be my choice, and no need for an amp in that case. Simple choice imo.
Never heard any of them so it's just speculations based on measurements.

 

[Jazigo]

May I suggest to take into account the Multi tone distortion graphs as well? I mainly look at those.

 

[Marc v E]

I would recommend you to listen to the Kef R3, Reference 1 through an amp that eq's the speakers to a room.

Like any avr from denon, marantz or a more regular stereo solution like the NAD m33.

Then you will know if a higher end speaker is worth it to you.

 

[kharan]

Kef if you need to play loud. It's a three way, it's 36L vs 26L, and a lot more expensive too.

Also, we do have compression data for the S6B, but it's not the same format as that from Erin's review of the Reference.

 

[Goldhamster916]

The choice might come down to looks, price, dimensions, longevity of used parts, aftermarket support 10 years or more if something happens to one (or both) speakers.

Most likely sound/performance wise these 2 options might not be that far apart that choosing one over the other will not be a regrettable choice.

Ästhetically I definetely prefer the KEF‘s. I agree you can’t really go wrong with either.

Well the simple fact that you can basically make a 5.1 ascilab system for the price of 2 reference 1 is pretty amazing. Reference 1's are in C8C + BX8's territory pricewise, the latter would be my choice, and no need for an amp in that case. Simple choice imo.
Never heard any of them so it's just speculations based on measurements.

I am maybe a bit conservative, but I just don’t like the active concept for expensive speakers I intend to keep for life.

I would recommend you to listen to the Kef R3, Reference 1 through an amp that eq's the speakers to a room.

Like any avr from denon, marantz or a more regular stereo solution like the NAD m33.

Then you will know if a higher end speaker is worth it to you.

I have compared the Reference 1 and R3 in two different rooms. expecting not much of a difference and was suprised that I liked the reference 1 way more.

Kef if you need to play loud. It's a three way, it's 36L vs 26L, and a lot more expensive too.

Also, we do have compression data for the S6B, but it's not the same format as that from Erin's review of the Reference.





View attachment 509984

Thanks for finding that!

Based on this graph the S6B seems to have less compression because the KEFs start to compress noticeably around 50/40hz and the S6B only really below 30hz.

I am not sure if there is a tangible benefit in the three way nature and higher cabinet volume of the KEF and how it would show up in the graphs.

 

[Mort]

I think the KEF which probably has a bass shelf and the coaxial upper will be easier to place in room.

 

[Goldhamster916]

This is what I think about this comparison:

S6B has slightly smoother FR, more even parallel sound power vs. directivity, slightly smoother and wider horizontal directivity. Less Distortion spike below 40hz (which is quite important to me).

The KEF is a bigger three way speaker although I am not sure if this translates into any tangible benefit over the S6B.

The KEF is coax what I value quite a lot. Since it will als be the main speaker in a 6.1.4 system it can be complemented by KEF’s angled height coax speakers which ascilab doesent have. So maybe a bit more consistency for panning of sound effects. I also prefers it ästhetically by quite a large margin over the ascilab. But it also costs 4K more here….

As you can probably tell I am in a bit of a analysis paralysis and am not sure how to move on With the decision, what is a total first world problem to have

 

[kharan]

Ästhetically I definetely prefer the KEF‘s. I agree you can’t really go wrong with either.



I am maybe a bit conservative, but I just don’t like the active concept for expensive speakers I intend to keep for life.



I have compared the Reference 1 and R3 in two different rooms. expecting not much of a difference and was suprised that I liked the reference 1 way more.


Thanks for finding that!

Based on this graph the S6B seems to have less compression because the KEFs start to compress noticeably around 50/40hz and the S6B only really below 30hz.

I am not sure if there is a tangible benefit in the three way nature and higher cabinet volume of the KEF and how it would show up in the graphs.

It's not the same type of compression test and as a result, they can't be compared at all. The test for the Kef is a sine sweep going from the lowest to the highest frequency, the test for the S6B is a multitone signal that's vaguely similar to pink noise and has a crest factor built in.

Having said that, the more I look at the measurements of the S6B the more impressed I become, the distortion levels at 96 dB are nothing short of miraculous when it comes to a speaker of this size. And technically speaking since both the Kef and the Ascilab are 6.5 inches, the amount of bass output they produce is limited by the excursion of the driver and its tuning in the box, and Ascilab has managed to do fair bit more with that driver than they did in the A6B. There's also the fact that you can a a subwoofer or even two to the S6B to reach the price of the Kef and in that case there's no doubt which system has more potential.

The low crossover point erases any advantage a coaxial might have with regards to the size of the vertical listening window. Though the vertical dispersion of the Kef remains somewhat better, how audible this is is another question. But you still get better IMD at high SPL since it is a three way if you don't go with a sub for the S6B.

Another solution is the Genelec 8361A. I know you asked for a passive, but Genelec has one of the best reputation for reliability and they'll probably repair your speaker 20 years from now still. And in my mind, the Genelec is superior to both.

 

[Matias]

Between those 2 I would choose the amazing bass extension of the Purifi woofer in the AsciLab speakers. But honestly owning my Sointuva AWG I am pretty happy with it, and I don't feel like missing out on the Purifi tweeter.

Sound power linearity is second to none.

March Audio Sointuva AWG Bookshelf Speaker Review

March Audio Sointuva AWG

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[Chromatischism]

Frequency response wise, I prefer the KEF. It looks like it will have a better balance with the bass.

But dispersion wise, I really prefer what the waveguide on the Ascilab does to spread the tweeter out. I know what that sounds like it so I'm pretty sure I'd prefer it. But I haven't heard any KEFs.

 

[jhaider]

What’s your time horizon? KEF is obviously more readily available.

 

[Goldhamster916]

It's not the same type of compression test and as a result, they can't be compared at all. The test for the Kef is a sine sweep going from the lowest to the highest frequency, the test for the S6B is a multitone signal that's vaguely similar to pink noise and has a crest factor built in.

Having said that, the more I look at the measurements of the S6B the more impressed I become, the distortion levels at 96 dB are nothing short of miraculous when it comes to a speaker of this size. And technically speaking since both the Kef and the Ascilab are 6.5 inches, the amount of bass output they produce is limited by the excursion of the driver and its tuning in the box, and Ascilab has managed to do fair bit more with that driver than they did in the A6B. There's also the fact that you can a a subwoofer or even two to the S6B to reach the price of the Kef and in that case there's no doubt which system has more potential.

The low crossover point erases any advantage a coaxial might have with regards to the size of the vertical listening window. Though the vertical dispersion of the Kef remains somewhat better, how audible this is is another question. But you still get better IMD at high SPL since it is a three way if you don't go with a sub for the S6B.

Another solution is the Genelec 8361A. I know you asked for a passive, but Genelec has one of the best reputation for reliability and they'll probably repair your speaker 20 years from now still. And in my mind, the Genelec is superior to both.

I appreciate the response. Thanks for pointing the different test methods out.

at my small room at 2m listening distance and speaker next to wall at moderate listening levels I consider the S6B a full range speaker which for me means, besides output, also reasonably low distortion in the bass. For me it is really amazing that the S6B is able to pull that off at that size and I really like the idea of having a tiny ,,full range“ speaker.

The KEF is great until 40hz but then distortion rises. I plan on using one subwoofer to correct for front wall dip via Dirac art but plan to keep the speakers as much full range as possible. Maybe I let the sub aid below 40 hz or so.

I considered the Genelecs too and would be fine with the active nature given Genelecs reliability, but the look of it somehow bugs me too much.

Between those 2 I would choose the amazing bass extension of the Purifi woofer in the AsciLab speakers. But honestly owning my Sointuva AWG I am pretty happy with it, and I don't feel like missing out on the Purifi tweeter.

Sound power linearity is second to none.

March Audio Sointuva AWG Bookshelf Speaker Review

March Audio Sointuva AWG

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

The purify woofer and the bass extension is the main reason which keeps me pausing from buying the KEF. That driver truly is something special and a level above the KEF‘s woofer.

Frequency response wise, I prefer the KEF. It looks like it will have a better balance with the bass.

But dispersion wise, I really prefer what the waveguide on the Ascilab does to spread the tweeter out. I know what that sounds like it so I'm pretty sure I'd prefer it. But I haven't heard any KEFs.

would you care to explain why exactly you liked the wide high frequency radiation?

What’s your time horizon? KEF is obviously more readily available.

It would be nice within this year. I don’t mind waiting for the S6B availability. At least the KEFs are sometimes avaible at the used market which shrinks the price difference at least somewhat.

 

[Jazigo]

I don’t mind waiting for the S6B availability.

If you have the stomach for it, maybe wait until KEF releases the new models with the VECO technology? I am personally waiting for the new KEF LS50 with that technology.

 

[Descartes]

If you have the stomach for it, maybe wait until KEF releases the new models with the VECO technology? I am personally waiting for the new KEF LS50 with that technology.

VECO technology what is that?

 

[Jazigo]

VECO technology what is that?

 

[Beave]

Isn't VECO going to be for active speakers only?

 

[Goldhamster916]

Given KEFs release cadence there can be a new reference series with veco 2029/30 earliest which is too long of a wait for me. And if it has too be active it’s going to be way to expensive for me.