End-game system, overdue learnings, and still things to improve?

[a|F]

I've been here for years and yet just recently upgraded from Spotify through my Denonx4500 to an Eversolo DMP-A6 pushing Qobuz through the same Denon, and my goodness, what an improvement. Shame on me. Some of us are slow or clearly don't understand what's possible...

I bit the bullet on end-game upgrades and would like feedback if I'm missing another obvious or easy improvement.

Basement room is 12.5'x20'x88" (narrow and low!) with bass traps and first reflections absorbed (4")

Inbound:
Marantz AV20 with Dirac ART. 60% stereo, 40% HT
New Revel Salon2's and a Voice2
Buckeye purifi 3 channel with 450watt each @4ohm

Already here and solid
4x SVS subs, one in each corner
11- channel Monolith amp

Here and questionable:
Eversolo DMP-A6 and -A8. Which should be kept if just a streamer into AV20 using DSP? I got the A8 after the A6 due to the DAC, but now learned it's not used with DSP on the AV20 because digital signal path. Duh. What's the best solution under $2k for my use case?

Surrounds are Revel S206 bipoles. They're terrible for multi channel stereo but that's ok cause I listen in stereo. But for Dirac ART and Atmos, it seems I really should switch to standard config. Space is an issue with narrow room and low ceiling so either angled or in wall. Budget prefer around $1k per but can increase if worthwhile. Recommendations?

Ceiling are Klipsch CDT-5650-C II. $150 each. I'm thinking who cares and they're fine...?

Please share thoughts and advice. Thanks.

 

[Keith_W]

The most obvious and easy improvement is to measure your room and see what else needs to be done. Sometimes you can get improvements for free, and it will be a bigger improvement than purchasing equipment.

 

[JRR]

The most obvious and easy improvement is to measure your room and see what else needs to be done. Sometimes you can get improvements for free, and it will be a bigger improvement than purchasing equipment.

Dirac art does that for him and compensates in ways most off the shelf acoustic treatment cant.

 

[Keith_W]

Dirac art does that for him and compensates in ways most off the shelf acoustic treatment cant.

I find this blind faith in Dirac ART to be quite disturbing. How do you know if it's doing its job if you don't verify it?

 

[SigbergAudio]

Eversolo DMP-A6 and -A8. Which should be kept if just a streamer into AV20 using DSP? I got the A8 after the A6 due to the DAC, but now learned it's not used with DSP on the AV20 because digital signal path. Duh. What's the best solution under $2k for my use case?

If you're happy with the streaming capabilities (practical use) of the DMP-A6, there's no need to keep the A8. If they're both outputting digital, their sound quality will be identical as it is determined by your AVR.

 

[staticV3]

Eversolo DMP-A6 and -A8. Which should be kept if just a streamer into AV20 using DSP? I got the A8 after the A6 due to the DAC, but now learned it's not used with DSP on the AV20 because digital signal path. Duh. What's the best solution under $2k for my use case?

If the AV20 handles DSP and all you want from the streamer is bit-exact streaming output into the AV20, then a WiiM Mini will handle that perfectly. Spending any more would be for naught.

 

[voodooless]

If the AV20 handles DSP and all you want from the streamer is bit-exact streaming output into the AV20, then a WiiM Mini will handle that perfectly. Spending any more would be for naught.

The AV20 will also handle Spotify or Qobuz just fine in its own. There is zero need for anything else.

recently upgraded from Spotify through my Denonx4500 to an Eversolo DMP-A6 pushing Qobuz through the same Denon, and my goodness, what an improvement. Shame on me. Some of us are slow or clearly don't understand what's possible...

How would that be possible? Both offer lossless audio. They’re likely using the same masters for the vast majority of content.

Spend the money on the speakers, not the electronics.

 

[a|F]

The AV20 will also handle Spotify or Qobuz just fine in its own. There is zero need for anything else.


How would that be possible? Both offer lossless audio. They’re likely using the same masters for the vast majority of content.

Spend the money on the speakers, not the electronics.

I don't believe either of your statements to be true, and anyone who likes your post should test it for themselves.

1. The audio quality via Spotify improved when playing through the DMP-A6. I was surprised too. Small but absolutely perceptible.
Cue audiophile comment- the veil was lifted.
Cue ASR comment- but did you measure.

2. Spotify Connect is lossy not lossless. Qobuz kicks its ass on even their lowest quality files. Huge improvement.

#2 above is easy to verify. #1 was explained to me by Claude and I don't have the expertise to validate the why. Other than streamers are optimized for that, and AVR's have a boatload of tradeoffs and challenges.

Naysayers really should test this out. But skip the Spotify test and go straight to hi-res. Qobuz has one month free and there's a simple integration they offer for Spotify so that your playlists transfer.

 

[voodooless]

I don't believe either of your statements to be true, and anyone who likes your post should test it for themselves.

1. The audio quality via Spotify improved when playing through the DMP-A6. I was surprised too. Small but absolutely perceptible.
Cue audiophile comment- the veil was lifted.
Cue ASR comment- but did you measure.

You can measure, or use a properly controlled blind test.

2. Spotify Connect is lossy not lossless. Qobuz kicks its ass on even their lowest quality files. Huge improvement.

Wrong:

Streaming Lossless audio from Spotify on my Powered by HEOS device?

support-eu.denon.com

#2 above is easy to verify. #1 was explained to me by Claude and I don't have the expertise to validate the why. Other than streamers are optimized for that, and AVR's have a boatload of tradeoffs and challenges.

So, what did Claude say? AI usually regurgitates the usual audiophile nonsense. Do not trust it if you cannot validate it.

Naysayers really should test this out. But skip the Spotify test and go straight to hi-res. Qobuz has one month free and there's a simple integration they offer for Spotify so that your playlists transfer.

Your Denon does not process high-res. Everything is processed at 48kHz anyway. The AV20 will be the same.

 

[staticV3]

Spotify Connect is lossy not lossless

Spotify Connect is lossless. Actually measured:

Lossless Listening Arrives on Spotify Premium

It sounds great to me. Of course their previous 320kbps also sounded great too. I prefer to use Spotify over other services because their app is the best and their connect feature works with every device I have. I agree. As we have a family sub, with the other members using Spotify (various...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Oddball]

I find this blind faith in Dirac ART to be quite disturbing. How do you know if it's doing its job if you don't verify it?

Because it has been verified by many members in many rooms on this and other forums. Probably hundreds or even thousands of graphs have been shared. So based on very large sample, it is doing the job it is supposed to do provided sufficient resources are available in the system. In this case, with 4 subs there is literally no question if ART will work. It will actually nail it to the point jaws will drop and some drooling might occur.

Obviously ART works only up to 150hz, so room treatment for the above that range is desirable.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes but you still have to verify that the software is actually doing what it purports to be doing, I didn’t find that the case with Dirac.
Keith

 

[Paffi]

This trust in Dirac is disturbing.

 

[a|F]

Spotify Connect is lossless. Actually measured:

Lossless Listening Arrives on Spotify Premium

It sounds great to me. Of course their previous 320kbps also sounded great too. I prefer to use Spotify over other services because their app is the best and their connect feature works with every device I have. I agree. As we have a family sub, with the other members using Spotify (various...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I stand corrected, thank you.
Still doesn't compare to Qobuz through a streamer.

Happy Friday gents.

 

[a|F]

This trust in Dirac is disturbing.

Trust but verify!

Great point about making actual measurements by @Keith_W . Should I have any concern about breaking out a UMIK that hasn't been touched in 10 years? Serious question.

 

[staticV3]

Still doesn't compare to Qobuz through a streamer.

Dude What are you talking about?

 

[Redacted]

Dude What are you talking about?

It's possible or even likely that mastering or normalized volume varies, but if the same pcm comes down the wire, I can't see how they could sound different!

And I assume any playback apps don't alter the data before it hits the DAC.

 

[a|F]

Because it has been verified by many members in many rooms on this and other forums. Probably hundreds or even thousands of graphs have been shared. So based on very large sample, it is doing the job it is supposed to do provided sufficient resources are available in the system. In this case, with 4 subs there is literally no question if ART will work. It will actually nail it to the point jaws will drop and some drooling might occur.

Obviously ART works only up to 150hz, so room treatment for the above that range is desirable.

I hope you are correct!

 

[Oddball]

@Purité Audio and @Paffi - you probably have to go through tens of thousands of post of various ART post on various forums. In the meantime, your posts seem to be going against the mainstream, so worth less than a tenth of a dime on a dollar. Sorry to be blunt, but ignorance is to be addressed with similar vigilance.

 

[janbth]

This trust in Dirac is disturbing.

Are you referring to Dirac Live, Dirac Live Bass Control, Dirac Live ART, or Dirac in general? Do you have any negative experience with Dirac?