End Game Speakers - The Quest Continues

[MattHooper]

Also getting to the point that you have no desire to spend anything more in this hobby is such a liberating feeling.

Yeah, it certainly can be. I'm spent out, so not looking to spend more. In fact, I'm lucky that I happened to just get all the audio gear I want in my system settled before I ran out of money.

Wait. Maybe that's not coincidence?

Also, if I stop obsessing about high end audio it usually means I'm in the mode of obsessing about home theater stuff.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I found the system for you

They look like something Dr. David Banner would pick up and do curls with when he gets pissed off.

And, of course, a single one, used horizontally, would make a wonderful center channel. So true endgame!

 

[srrxr71]

Yeah, it certainly can be. I'm spent out, so not looking to spend more. In fact, I'm lucky that I happened to just get all the audio gear I want in my system settled before I ran out of money.

Wait. Maybe that's not coincidence?

Also, if I stop obsessing about high end audio it usually means I'm in the mode of obsessing about home theater stuff.

That’s a really good thing. Music can carry you to the next level of let’s say financial achievement if that is what you want in your life.

Personally i’m not a HT person. I used to be. But there is one moment i’m waiting for.

When I can hit order and for less than around $8k a tube shows up to my door. Inside that tubes is a 120” rollable sheet you can double sided tape stick to your wall. Which can hit 10,000 nits with infinite contrast.

Through the journey I’ve gone from lusting after this stuff to now setting my targets for when I will upgrade.

The early 2000s were a period of rapid progress. It was exciting to keep upgrading. Always being that early adopter guy.

I’ve come to realize that this stuff just needs to serve you. Not the other way around.

I think video is pretty much at 90% of end game right now. There are only few things that can improve it. Mostly just make ‘em brighter and thinner.

Audio imho is done. The only thing left is simply louder.

It’s been helpful that we have gotten here. That money can be used much more wisely now.

I never had a budget for audio stuff. Just compulsive buying. If it’s audio related the value of money itself was different. $500? $1000 like that’s just easily justifiable to my mind like it’s nothing. It’s for audio.

My other weakness is comouter building. It’s nowhere close to being a done deal. There will always be faster computers and better graphics. But really even if you wait 3 years the new machine will be marginally faster in CPU and maybe about 50% better in graphics. Even a $500 computer is plenty fast for most people these days.

It’s a real blessing. So many better thing to spend one’s money on imho.

 

[Mart68]

I'd buy a Kii 3 pair with the "BXT" and "Control" options and be done with it -- no worries about amp capability/compatibility or cost, and they're not especially ugly. I'm done with passive speakers other than for the ambience/surround role -- YMMV.

That was also my thought but after three demos of the Kii I decided they were not all round better than the Krell/Focal combo I already have so decided to pass.

I mean it's a lot of money for a small improvement in one aspect (LF performance).

Planning a full house renovation which will mean moving out for several months, after that I will begin my own 'end game speaker' quest. Currently the JBL 4365 is the front runner, I enjoyed them more than the Kii. Why? No idea, but we can't pretend that the psychological aspect is not important. Ultimately you have to go with your gut.

 

[eric tee]

Has the initial poster considered the significance of the lack of audio memory when making the choice. Comparing the speaker you listened to for example half a year ago with the speaker you are listening to today... It might be a bit challenging.

Not to mention the influence of different acoustic listening enviroment conditions (of showrooms) or for example, the current state of mind on the interpretation of sound quality.

So, another round of testing. Might be required to ensure the accuracy of the results. Starting on page one in the original thread

 

[FrantzM]

Has the initial poster considered the significance of the lack of audio memory when making the choice. Comparing the speaker you listened to for example half a year ago with the speaker you are listening to today... It might be a bit challenging.

Not to mention the influence of different acoustic listening enviroment conditions (of showrooms) or for example, the current state of mind on the interpretation of sound quality.

So, another round of testing. Might be required to ensure the accuracy of the results. Starting on page one in the original thread

+1


I haven't read all the posts but it seems to me that the speaker closer to the OP ideal would be the Genelec combo of 8351B + W371A.
A pair is within the original budget, (around $30,000), and doesn't require amplification.

One can go around auditioning several wildly different systems/speakers in different rooms at different times and, yes, states of mind. At this point in my audiophile journey and after 4 years with a cheap (Total of $2500 for 2 speakers + 2 Subwoofers + AVR), but carefully set-up and immensely satisfying audio system, helped by:

• Audyssey unheralded, but powerful, MultEQ-X
• REW, that requires no introduction.
• MSO an unwieldy but powerful software for bass EQ (Yes, it does that very well)
• Lot of measurements, reiterations, research, long term listening and fussing...

I've come to the conclusion that once the baseline of linear, accurate and capable (for the SPL required in-room) speakers, is set, the better speakers are likely to sound more similar than we've been led to believe, by our mind and the HEA press.

If I ever embark into such a quest, that would be my path. Later I would add a pair of powerful non-Genelec , subwoofers capable of clean reach below 20 Hz, then the powerful Trinnov pre/Pro/Control Center/DSP + The same Genelec combo for Center channel, then some non-coaxial Genelec for Surround and Atmos...

End Game.


Peace.

 

[napfkuchen]

Has the initial poster considered the significance of the lack of audio memory when making the choice. Comparing the speaker you listened to for example half a year ago with the speaker you are listening to today... It might be a bit challenging.

Not to mention the influence of different acoustic listening enviroment conditions (of showrooms) or for example, the current state of mind on the interpretation of sound quality.

So, another round of testing. Might be required to ensure the accuracy of the results. Starting on page one in the original thread

At least on audio shows seating position (you most likely won't be able to sit in the sweet-spot) and the music (it won't be your personal playlist) are also factors.

I'm glad that I don't belong to the camp of endless seekers. "Arriving" in a state of contentment and simply existing without always looking for minimal improvements is worth much more to me than the constant restlessness beyond the pareto optimum.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

As a small manufacturer I reject the idea that small / small volume production makes it impossible to "get the engineering right".

There are certainly many expensive speakers that do a better job at being good looking furniture than presenting music in a convincing way, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. And I don't think the reason they get it wrong is low volume.

Yesterday I had a look at your website and products. Can I say that I was hugely impressed. The small speaker with two of your sub options appears to be perfect. On price, performance and warranty. As a UK person I would certainly be prepared to buy from a Norwegian manufacturer.
Having said all this, I am hoping that my current passive system works for a few more years. Anyway, very good luck to your enterprise.

 

[EdW]

As a small manufacturer I reject the idea that small / small volume production makes it impossible to "get the engineering right".

There are certainly many expensive speakers that do a better job at being good looking furniture than presenting music in a convincing way, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. And I don't think the reason they get it wrong is low volume.

I’m impressed with Sigberg audio offerings. Very focussed upper medium priced loudspeakers and woofers. I’d love to see some reviews and spinorama etc.
In my defence I was specifically being rather direct about very expensive loudspeakers! In the context of this thread we are probably talking significantly above $30K - there are plenty of ridiculously over-priced and over-hyped speakers which ASR contributors have highlighted and we’ve all had a quiet chuckle at their outlandish prices and some sometimes very odd appearance.

 

[flysouth]

Siberg thumbs up!

Reminds me of when I get into the car and the perfect song comes on...magic...everyone confirms on how the experience outweighs the gear...or should at least.

Maybe topics such as this could be renamed to "why we choose or how" because usually I get to the purchase and realize all the fun was in the quest and not absorbing sound and music where maybe it couldve been.

end game is sitting in front a fire on a nice night with family and connecting through what we listen to

 

[srrxr71]

Siberg thumbs up!

Reminds me of when I get into the car and the perfect song comes on...magic...everyone confirms on how the experience outweighs the gear...or should at least.

Maybe topics such as this could be renamed to "why we choose or how" because usually I get to the purchase and realize all the fun was in the quest and not absorbing sound and music where maybe it couldve been.

end game is sitting in front a fire on a nice night with family and connecting through what we listen to

The problem with pro audio is that it really has only one sweet spot. Maybe 2 if sitting in tandem. For whole family listening. Probably Sonos or HomePods might be better.

 

[MKR]

I vaguely recall that SMWTMS reported establishing the audibility of absolute polarity with blind testing back in the 80s, but that (consistent with reports here) it was very subtle and not all testees could hear it.

Then there is the issue that polarity could have been reversed somewhere in the recording chain, so there is no way to be sure which polarity is correct, even if it is (barely) audible.

Thanks … all that to say, mostly seems to be much ado about nothing

 

[MKR]

Has the initial poster considered the significance of the lack of audio memory when making the choice. Comparing the speaker you listened to for example half a year ago with the speaker you are listening to today... It might be a bit challenging.

Not to mention the influence of different acoustic listening enviroment conditions (of showrooms) or for example, the current state of mind on the interpretation of sound quality.

So, another round of testing. Might be required to ensure the accuracy of the results. Starting on page one in the original thread

A fair point to be sure, thanks for the thoughtful contribution. A real phenomena (acoustic memory) and certainly I have considered. As this journey has been long, with many, many posts, I do not expect members here new to the quest to be fully aware of all the details. But, I have in fact “circled back” for this reason, auditioning the same speakers on multiple occasions and in different venues. As such I have very high confidence in the short list. Also important to note that Soundfield graciously sent me a pair of demo speakers and allowed me to keep them for several months. There is no better way to really understand what you want and what is important to you than having extensive time with speakers in your listening environment. This demo had all of the attributes that I have learned are critical to my ears and greatly contributed to the high confidence I have in my short list.

 

[MKR]

+1


I haven't read all the posts but it seems to me that the speaker closer to the OP ideal would be the Genelec combo of 8351B + W371A.
A pair is within the original budget, (around $30,000), and doesn't require amplification.

One can go around auditioning several wildly different systems/speakers in different rooms at different times and, yes, states of mind. At this point in my audiophile journey and after 4 years with a cheap (Total of $2500 for 2 speakers + 2 Subwoofers + AVR), but carefully set-up and immensely satisfying audio system, helped by:

• Audyssey unheralded, but powerful, MultEQ-X
• REW, that requires no introduction.
• MSO an unwieldy but powerful software for bass EQ (Yes, it does that very well)
• Lot of measurements, reiterations, research, long term listening and fussing...

I've come to the conclusion that once the baseline of linear, accurate and capable (for the SPL required in-room) speakers, is set, the better speakers are likely to sound more similar than we've been led to believe, by our mind and the HEA press.

If I ever embark into such a quest, that would be my path. Later I would add a pair of powerful non-Genelec , subwoofers capable of clean reach below 20 Hz, then the powerful Trinnov pre/Pro/Control Center/DSP + The same Genelec combo for Center channel, then some non-coaxial Genelec for Surround and Atmos...

End Game.


Peace.

Great comments, and agree, see my prior comment on the attributes that are important to me (well align for most part with yours). As to the Genelecs, been there, done that. I did audition the 8361 and while very good, I prefer others. In all fairness, no, I did not audition with the 371, but as I have stated prior, 371 overpriced for what you get (poor value for my hard earned dollar) and I can achieve equal (and very likely higher) performance for less money. But again, not taking anything away from the design, they are very good. Just not for me. Sorry @Pearljam5000

I should add that the 8381 is closer to what I am looking for, and would love to audition, but sadly it is WAY over my budget

 

[Ron Texas]

The problem with pro audio is that it really has only one sweet spot. Maybe 2 if sitting in tandem. For whole family listening. Probably Sonos or HomePods might be better.

Also pro audio is optimized for near field. It's great for desktop setups.

 

[Ron Texas]

That was also my thought but after three demos of the Kii I decided they were not all round better than the Krell/Focal combo I already have so decided to pass.

I mean it's a lot of money for a small improvement in one aspect (LF performance).

Planning a full house renovation which will mean moving out for several months, after that I will begin my own 'end game speaker' quest. Currently the JBL 4365 is the front runner, I enjoyed them more than the Kii. Why? No idea, but we can't pretend that the psychological aspect is not important. Ultimately you have to go with your gut.

Which Focal do you have?

 

[Ron Texas]

It's nice to be free from obsession, no matter what that obsession is. The problem seems to haunt audiophiles, photographers, and guitar players among others. Being free from obsession does not necessarily mean you don't buy anything, but the thought process is different and the compulsion isn't there.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Yesterday I had a look at your website and products. Can I say that I was hugely impressed. The small speaker with two of your sub options appears to be perfect. On price, performance and warranty. As a UK person I would certainly be prepared to buy from a Norwegian manufacturer.
Having said all this, I am hoping that my current passive system works for a few more years. Anyway, very good luck to your enterprise.

Thank you for your kind words, I appreciate the feedback! When your old system stops working, you even have a knowledgable local presence in the UK to shop from with @Purité Audio

 

[sigbergaudio]

I’m impressed with Sigberg audio offerings. Very focussed upper medium priced loudspeakers and woofers. I’d love to see some reviews and spinorama etc.
In my defence I was specifically being rather direct about very expensive loudspeakers! In the context of this thread we are probably talking significantly above $30K - there are plenty of ridiculously over-priced and over-hyped speakers which ASR contributors have highlighted and we’ve all had a quiet chuckle at their outlandish prices and some sometimes very odd appearance.

Thank you! Spinorama for both our speaker offerings are available at www.spinorama.org.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

I mean it's a lot of money for a small improvement in one aspect

Isn't that pretty much true of most upgrades to already-exceptional gear?