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End Game Speakers - The Quest Continues

Duke

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Much, much, much bigger!
Best,
Keith

I know nothing other than "it'll be bigger", but would be thrilled to see the 8c scaled up to a full-sized floor-standing full-range improved version of the GedLee Summa... the 8c arguably being a minaturized full-range improved version thereof. I would also hate hate hate having to compete against something like that.

I imaging the next D&D is a 10C or 12C
Same as 8C but with bigger woofers with optional subs

My guess is 15" midwoofer, because the next stop in studio monitors after "midfield" is "main monitors". My guess is the Genelec 8381a will have competition.
 

Pearljam5000

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I know nothing other than "it'll be bigger", but would be thrilled to see the 8c scaled up to a full-sized floor-standing full-range improved version of the GedLee Summa... the 8c arguably being a minaturized full-range improved version thereof. I would also hate hate hate having to compete against something like that.



My guess is 15" midwoofer, because the next stop in studio monitors after "midfield" is "main monitors". My guess is the Genelec 8381a will have competition.
Not sure the 8C is midfield , it's somewhat of a nearfield also.
So the next step could be something a bit bigger-a midfield same size as Focal Trio 11/KH420 for example
I doubt it's as big as 8381
 

prestigetone

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Not sure the 8C is midfield , it's somewhat of a nearfield also.
So the next step could be something a bit bigger-a midfield same size as Focal Trio 11/KH420 for example
I doubt it's as big as 8381
I'd classify the 8C as midfield. They *could* be used as near field, but I would pick a smaller monitor unless mastering or using them as mains. I don't think I ever had the limiters kick in. They go LOUD.
 

JohnnyAudio

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Yes, cabinet is 22Hz, and speakers are moderately high sensitivity for sure.

I am interested since there is confusion on the published parameters. At least now the manufacturer publishes parameters that are self-consistent. I am interested to see what the TS parameters actually are. And, very unusual parameters they are.

Cabinet tuned to 22Hz isn't sufficient to see how the speaker does 22Hz anechoic, in a room, etc.
Well, read more of what Steve Decker says on his forum.
He knows what he's doing, even Lii in China builds his design and his amps are perfect.
I will drive these new Headwreckers with his 2.3 watt UFO amp.
Forums » AUDIO FORUMS » General Discussion and Support New DECWARE Folded Horn
 

MAB

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Well, read more of what Steve Decker says on his forum.
He knows what he's doing, even Lii in China builds his design and his amps are perfect.
I will drive these new Headwreckers with his 2.3 watt UFO amp.
Forums » AUDIO FORUMS » General Discussion and Support New DECWARE Folded Horn
Cool.
I've also seen discussion on DIYaudio forum, and elsewhere. It is a really unusual driver.
I'm just eager to see the results.
 

JohnnyAudio

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Cool.
I've also seen discussion on DIYaudio forum, and elsewhere. It is a really unusual driver.
I'm just eager to see the results.
I can't wait... about a week or two before complete.
I also have the Lii S-10's in stone open baffles.
S10s.jpg
 

Ciobi69

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JohnnyAudio

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Dumb stuff i have an open baffle too worst money i have spent
Well, mine was inexpensive to try, I like them for jazz and vocals.
 
OP
M

MKR

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yes, but also trying to compare my (yet to build) room size with yours. I have the 8c and was trying to compare to see how they may/may not be loud enough. Hoping to learn something
Ah, I see. What is your room size and have you had occasions where you hit the limits of the rear woofers (audible distortion)?
 

JohnnyAudio

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How is it possible?
Much bigger speakers with bigger cabinets and multiple bigger woofers don't go down that low.
DECWARE Folded Horn, Steve Decker notes of interest,

It is a 1/4 wave horn at 29.5 Hz, meaning it is a 1/2 wave at 60 and a full wave at 120Hz.

The bass from these speakers is insanely deep tight clean fast. The speaker can just stop and hang notes leaving you breathless. I am driving them with the SE84UFO25.

Two watts from a Zen Triode amp is just crushing it. The dynamics are hard to describe. Nothing at the AXPONA had this hit, and we are talking big big big solid state amps and equally and larger speakers. It's not even that loud, it just sounds like it because of the dynamics and presence. Two things that normally only come with pressure.

Even at normal listen levels I can feel the bass in the concrete everywhere in the building. Also the lowest and the fastest bass I've ever heard. It can start moving the whole building and then just stop and the building itself freezes until it is released.

The sound is perfectly neutral. It energized the room in a way only large horns can. This is even better than the full size imperial horns because it's faster and at 1/3 the width the standing waves in the room are reduced by 2/3rds and the bass is increased by the same amount.

The slam and the speed at which the notes stop is so over the top, I've never heard anything do it this well before. It actually made me realize with amazement that air is really fast!

Noise floor in the room is 36dB A weighted. Listening level in the chair is 95dB. I was shocked because it feels like well over 100dB.

You thought it was dynamic, but no. You have to come over and feel it pummel you chest while your ears are at the same time taking in a breath of fresh air, with zero fatigue or compression. I'd have to say it is the lowest distortion high SPL sound I have heard. Even the MBL at AXPONA didn't do this, although it gave it one hell of a shot.

Unlike many highly resolute speakers that get sharp sounding if you turn them up, these drivers are not like that, at least not in this horn which is the only cabinet I have tried. This combination sounds sharper at low volumes than it does at high volumes. In other words, as you give it gas, the midrange weight and midbass get really well developed and the overall top to bottom balance becomes perfection.

The finesse of these drivers going down to around 30Hz re-enforces the position that if you can avoid a subwoofer, do it.

The imaging is just phenomenal. Large wide arc that extends 8 feet past either speaker and massive depth, height. This is really kind of the biggest surprise considering their size. You really can't hear the speakers at all.

20230414-152356.jpg
 

RobL

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DECWARE Folded Horn, Steve Decker notes of interest,

It is a 1/4 wave horn at 29.5 Hz, meaning it is a 1/2 wave at 60 and a full wave at 120Hz.

The bass from these speakers is insanely deep tight clean fast. The speaker can just stop and hang notes leaving you breathless. I am driving them with the SE84UFO25.

Two watts from a Zen Triode amp is just crushing it. The dynamics are hard to describe. Nothing at the AXPONA had this hit, and we are talking big big big solid state amps and equally and larger speakers. It's not even that loud, it just sounds like it because of the dynamics and presence. Two things that normally only come with pressure.

Even at normal listen levels I can feel the bass in the concrete everywhere in the building. Also the lowest and the fastest bass I've ever heard. It can start moving the whole building and then just stop and the building itself freezes until it is released.

The sound is perfectly neutral. It energized the room in a way only large horns can. This is even better than the full size imperial horns because it's faster and at 1/3 the width the standing waves in the room are reduced by 2/3rds and the bass is increased by the same amount.

The slam and the speed at which the notes stop is so over the top, I've never heard anything do it this well before. It actually made me realize with amazement that air is really fast!

Noise floor in the room is 36dB A weighted. Listening level in the chair is 95dB. I was shocked because it feels like well over 100dB.

You thought it was dynamic, but no. You have to come over and feel it pummel you chest while your ears are at the same time taking in a breath of fresh air, with zero fatigue or compression. I'd have to say it is the lowest distortion high SPL sound I have heard. Even the MBL at AXPONA didn't do this, although it gave it one hell of a shot.

Unlike many highly resolute speakers that get sharp sounding if you turn them up, these drivers are not like that, at least not in this horn which is the only cabinet I have tried. This combination sounds sharper at low volumes than it does at high volumes. In other words, as you give it gas, the midrange weight and midbass get really well developed and the overall top to bottom balance becomes perfection.

The finesse of these drivers going down to around 30Hz re-enforces the position that if you can avoid a subwoofer, do it.

The imaging is just phenomenal. Large wide arc that extends 8 feet past either speaker and massive depth, height. This is really kind of the biggest surprise considering their size. You really can't hear the speakers at all.

View attachment 350816
I dunno, saying they play to 20Hz isn’t technically incorrect but they’re -25db@20Hz…
IMG_0873.png
 

JohnnyAudio

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Galliardist

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That’s OK, we can disagree and still be friends :) … But, maybe some misunderstanding. I never stated zero treatment and that I will not be taking appropriate basic acoustic “precautions“, been in this game for far too long to fully dismiss that aspect. But what I am telling you is my listening space will look like a living space, not a darn recording studio! It is simply not necessary with modern active DSP based designs and EQ options. But some small amount of treatment? Sure, you can’t defeat physics.
That is my point though - and I'm obviously not making it clearly enough.

The right person involved now, can improve the acoustics of your new room while giving you the living space you want. If you get it wrong now, you're more likely to have to resort to obtrusive or undesirable physical measures later, or have worse room issues, regardless of DSP measures. It's worth at least approaching people with your requirements and see what initial proposals you get that may or may not work for you.

And don't kid yourself too much. It's already going to be a living space with a big pair of speakers and a few other black box subwoofers in it.
 
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MKR

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That is my point though - and I'm obviously not making it clearly enough.

The right person involved now, can improve the acoustics of your new room while giving you the living space you want. If you get it wrong now, you're more likely to have to resort to obtrusive or undesirable physical measures later, or have worse room issues, regardless of DSP measures. It's worth at least approaching people with your requirements and see what initial proposals you get that may or may not work for you.

And don't kid yourself too much. It's already going to be a living space with a big pair of speakers and a few other black box subwoofers in it.
You were clear, thanks for the advice, no need to beat the dead horse any longer on this topic :)
 

muslhead

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Ah, I see. What is your room size and have you had occasions where you hit the limits of the rear woofers (audible distortion)?
New room will be 35x45x12 ft. Current room, which is slightly smaller, have never hit audible distortion but that is likely because i havent really pushed them. Maybe 95db (just guessing)
 
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