End Game Speaker Quest - The Final Chapter

[MKR]

What’s behind the selection of small planers for the mid and treble? Are you trying to capture some of the soundstage characteristics of planers while avoiding the small sweet spot they typically have? Or something else? I’m really curious.

Correct, it mainly comes down to dispersion characteristics and which topology will work best in my listening room. Coax has narrower dispersion characteristics than the planar (vertical and horizontal)

 

[amper42]

As to similarities to the speakers you mentioned, yeah, sort of I suppose. But similarities end at driver topology. The EGs are a fully different animal. And I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that the EGs will not sound good at low volumes just by looking at a render? Can you please provide a more detailed explanation for your conclusion?

I have no doubt that your new speakers will sound phenomenal. There's something truly special about the sound produced by 7 to 8-foot tall speakers that's simply unmatched.

Our perception of sound varies significantly at different volume levels. This variance can be even more pronounced with large, multi-driver speakers. Without sophisticated dynamic EQ systems that adjust frequency response based on volume, and highly efficient driver designs that maintain dynamism even at very low levels, listeners might notice a lack of vibrancy at softer volumes.

Many high-end tower speakers are engineered with larger rooms and higher volumes in mind. Their voicing and overall design often cater to these conditions rather than background listening. Moreover, large speakers interact more substantially with the room, especially in terms of bass response. This interaction becomes more evident at higher volumes, contributing to that "fantastic" sound you're anticipating. At lower volumes, however, room interaction is less perceptible.

Large multi-driver speakers excel at producing high sound pressure levels (SPL) without distortion, which is ideal for loud listening. But at lower volumes, not all drivers may be fully engaged, potentially diminishing the perceived dynamics. Additionally, the complex crossover designs in tower speakers, designed to distribute frequencies among multiple drivers, are typically optimized for higher listening levels where all drivers are fully active. At lower volumes, some drivers may not receive sufficient signal to operate optimally.

When you audition your new speakers in your space at various SPL levels, you'll quickly discern if they might benefit from a finely tuned "loudness" curve that automatically reduces as volume increases. This feature implemented effectively by RME, can greatly enhance the listening experience especially at background music levels.

 

[prestigetone]

Sorry, not sure what you mean by “handled”? I assume you mean who is responsible for cost?

Yes. Always interested in logistics of something like this.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Is there a photo of the speakers?

 

[mglobe]

Is there a photo of the speakers?

There’s a drawing of what they are expected to look like. As I understand it, what MKR will have to listen to first will be prototypes. This is a collaboration between the builder and the customer.

 

[Penelinfi]

Legacy speakers made something that looks kind of similar. But not cardioid

 

[Pearljam5000]

Is there any reason not to choose the coaxial driver?

 

[Sokel]

I have no doubt that your new speakers will sound phenomenal. There's something truly special about the sound produced by 7 to 8-foot tall speakers that's simply unmatched.

Our perception of sound varies significantly at different volume levels. This variance can be even more pronounced with large, multi-driver speakers. Without sophisticated dynamic EQ systems that adjust frequency response based on volume, and highly efficient driver designs that maintain dynamism even at very low levels, listeners might notice a lack of vibrancy at softer volumes.

Many high-end tower speakers are engineered with larger rooms and higher volumes in mind. Their voicing and overall design often cater to these conditions rather than background listening. Moreover, large speakers interact more substantially with the room, especially in terms of bass response. This interaction becomes more evident at higher volumes, contributing to that "fantastic" sound you're anticipating. At lower volumes, however, room interaction is less perceptible.

Large multi-driver speakers excel at producing high sound pressure levels (SPL) without distortion, which is ideal for loud listening. But at lower volumes, not all drivers may be fully engaged, potentially diminishing the perceived dynamics. Additionally, the complex crossover designs in tower speakers, designed to distribute frequencies among multiple drivers, are typically optimized for higher listening levels where all drivers are fully active. At lower volumes, some drivers may not receive sufficient signal to operate optimally.

When you audition your new speakers in your space at various SPL levels, you'll quickly discern if they might benefit from a finely tuned "loudness" curve that automatically reduces as volume increases. This feature implemented effectively by RME, can greatly enhance the listening experience especially at background music levels.

By my experience,room volume counts,and counts a lot,in fact it dictates what kind of speakers it needs.
On the other hand,level is insignificant if we're talking low.

One of the best tests of a big speaker in a big-ish quiet room (mine is 80m² for example) is to put the level as low as possible.The effect is that both the speakers and room are disappearing if the former is decently treated and the later decently positioned.

So level is not a problem,no matter how low,positioning and treatment is on the other hand.

 

[bricksie]

Why choose between planars vs coax? Have them both mounted on a rotatable module. The active set would be pointing forward, and rotating the module would also automatically adjust the DSP settings in the bass modules to match the active set. This way you can have the best of both worlds for different genres. Not sure how much a mod like this would cost though... Could also add a remote control to actuate motors to do the job for you, rather than doing it manually. That would be impressive!

 

[MKR]

I have no doubt that your new speakers will sound phenomenal. There's something truly special about the sound produced by 7 to 8-foot tall speakers that's simply unmatched.

Our perception of sound varies significantly at different volume levels. This variance can be even more pronounced with large, multi-driver speakers. Without sophisticated dynamic EQ systems that adjust frequency response based on volume, and highly efficient driver designs that maintain dynamism even at very low levels, listeners might notice a lack of vibrancy at softer volumes.

Many high-end tower speakers are engineered with larger rooms and higher volumes in mind. Their voicing and overall design often cater to these conditions rather than background listening. Moreover, large speakers interact more substantially with the room, especially in terms of bass response. This interaction becomes more evident at higher volumes, contributing to that "fantastic" sound you're anticipating. At lower volumes, however, room interaction is less perceptible.

Large multi-driver speakers excel at producing high sound pressure levels (SPL) without distortion, which is ideal for loud listening. But at lower volumes, not all drivers may be fully engaged, potentially diminishing the perceived dynamics. Additionally, the complex crossover designs in tower speakers, designed to distribute frequencies among multiple drivers, are typically optimized for higher listening levels where all drivers are fully active. At lower volumes, some drivers may not receive sufficient signal to operate optimally.

When you audition your new speakers in your space at various SPL levels, you'll quickly discern if they might benefit from a finely tuned "loudness" curve that automatically reduces as volume increases. This feature implemented effectively by RME, can greatly enhance the listening experience especially at background music levels.

Thanks for your additional explanation. But I am not following the logic here. With this design there is no “voicing” or specific attributes that would make it any less capable at lower levels vs high SPL, but it certainly is capable of higher SPL vs a generally smaller system (obviously). I also do not understand your comment that not all drivers are “fully engaged” at lower volumes. What does this mean? All drivers are fully “active” all the time and the crossover (DSP) is not optimized for high or low levels, it will be optimized to have as flat FR as possible across the frequency spectrum. And once again, one of the primary goals of this design (as with any Soundfield design) is to remove the room from the equation as much a possible. This is especially true with the full-range cardioid capability and variable directivity.

Not saying you are wrong, I am just not convinced

 

[MKR]

Is there a photo of the speakers?

See first post. System only exists on paper, design in progress.

 

[MKR]

There’s a drawing of what they are expected to look like. As I understand it, what MKR will have to listen to first will be prototypes. This is a collaboration between the builder and the customer.

This is correct. There is a first-pass high level design, more detailed design work already started on the bass modules. However, the mid/tweet module design is still TBD pending the outcome of the upcoming demo (coax vs planar).

 

[MKR]

Is there any reason not to choose the coaxial driver?

Only if the planar works (sounds) better in my specific room. The planar has wider dispersion characteristics than the coax and that may be problematic in my smaller room. This is why it is so important to have the in-home demo, really the only way to know for certain what will function best in my space and preference. Typically I prefer wider to narrow dispersion, and usually why I have never been a big fan of coax drivers, but that may not be the end conclusion in this case.

 

[MKR]

Why choose between planars vs coax? Have them both mounted on a rotatable module. The active set would be pointing forward, and rotating the module would also automatically adjust the DSP settings in the bass modules to match the active set. This way you can have the best of both worlds for different genres. Not sure how much a mod like this would cost though... Could also add a remote control to actuate motors to do the job for you, rather than doing it manually. That would be impressive!

Interesting (and cool) idea of course, but my expectation is there will be a single solution that sounds best in my room, will be no need to switch between the two types. Also the on the fly (Hypex remote switchable) variable directivity will allow some level of adjustment similar to having “swappable” mid/tweet module. Finally, there is a rear “effects” planar regardless of the front facing solution that would make such a solution even more complicated. And yes, even if possible, would be more expensive and maybe push over my budget.

 

[amper42]

Interesting (and cool) idea of course, but my expectation is there will be a single solution that sounds best in my room, will be no need to switch between the two types. Also the on the fly (Hypex remote switchable) variable directivity will allow some level of adjustment similar to having “swappable” mid/tweet module. Finally, there is a rear “effects” planar regardless of the front facing solution that would make such a solution even more complicated. And yes, even if possible, would be more expensive and maybe push over my budget.

That sounds fun. Lots of options for sound tuning. Do you know what model the drivers are that you will be comparing?

 

[MKR]

Yes. Always interested in logistics of something like this.

Got it. Especially understand your curiosity given the terrible shipping situation you experienced with the Geithains. Soundfield uses very stout custom wood crating to ship their larger speaker systems.

 

[Mart68]

This really is going to be a monumental system. Not cheap, but does seem to me that for what you're going to be getting and considering that it's a totally customised solution, it's remarkable value for money.

 

[amper42]

This really is going to be a monumental system. Not cheap, but does seem to me that for what you're going to be getting and considering that it's a totally customised solution, it's remarkable value for money.

Actually, this is pretty good PR for Soundfield. I can see once all drivers are tested and selected by MKR there may be a new speaker model available from Southfield called the "MKR" with signed additions available for $100 more.

 

[MKR]

That sounds fun. Lots of options for sound tuning. Do you know what model the drivers are that you will be comparing?

Planar midrange is the GRS PT5010 (the former BG Neo) and the coax is the 12” BMS

 

[MKR]

This really is going to be a monumental system. Not cheap, but does seem to me that for what you're going to be getting and considering that it's a totally customised solution, it's remarkable value for money.

Well said … of course the intent is that it be monumental, else the “end game” moniker is quite inappropriate … and indeed, very expensive (at least for mere working stiff mortals like me), but for what I am getting and if you compare the customization and capability to all the other HEA crazy priced jewelry out there, incredible value indeed.