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Emotiva XPA-DR2 Review (Stereo Power Amplifier)

PeteL

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Unless we're in bizarro world where "accuracy", "finesse" and "detail" mean "drowing everything but 12 bits of the input signal into noise", I.
This Amp has very low noise, It has high distortion, distortion is a much les straight Black/White Audible/transparent Pass/fail metric than noise. And I'm not saying it is not audible, I believe it is, I care, but many may not. I personally have a few vintage receiver in B systems, or lent to my friends that sound very good to my ears and are in this ballpark of distortion, or worse. The only thing I can say is that there are not as High fidelity, finesse, realism, impact, are all subjective terms that don't relate to measurments, neither it relates to fidelity.
 

RichB

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No need to speculate, the datasheet shows that highs are under control.

ICEpower 1200AS
View attachment 142171

This is better than Emotiva but .01 is SINAD 80 but we have to know the bandwidth of the measurement. The ASR measurement bandwidth is 45kHz which makes sense if the purpose is to reproduce "Hi-Res" audio or worried about ultrasonic noise and distortion modulating into the audible range.

- Rich
 
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RichB

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AHB2 in stereo or bridged mode? I have the AHB2 and have been debating whether it has the headroom for less efficient bookshelf speakers (84 dB), but I'm only 5 feet away .

Are the AHB2 clip lights illuminating? If not and the volume is where you want it, then you are all set.

- Rich
 

RichB

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emotiva: "rethink high-end"

LOL

Perhaps, they should move to "reimagine image high-end". We all know that things go the hell in a handbasket when they are reimagined :p

- Rich
 

q3cpma

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This Amp has very low noise, It has high distortion, distortion is a much les straight Black/White Audible/transparent Pass/fail metric than noise. And I'm not saying it is not audible, I believe it is, I care, but many may not. I personally have a few vintage receiver in B systems, or lent to my friends that sound very good to my ears and are in this ballpark of distortion, or worse. The only thing I can say is that there are not as High fidelity, finesse, realism, impact, are all subjective terms that don't relate to measurments, neither it relates to fidelity.
Music is nearer to multitone than a single tone without harmonics, unless you exclusively listen to flute solos. In practice, it is noise, even if it is correlated to the signal (so "not noise", in the signal theory meaning of noise).
 

KSTR

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Some random thoughts:
The high distortion is almost independent of level which is extremely unusal and IMHO worth looking at in more detail (in case of interest, that is). Seeing the same issue in both channels makes it less likely that this a defect of the specific test item.

At the momemt we only have THD+N vs. level plots and the 1kHz magnitude spectrum. Plotting the time-domain residual signal would offer some more insight. Additionally, one could this, and the other plots also, with varied load resistance only, to check for effect of different output current loading at otherwise unchanged operation points.

The only time I have seen something remotely similar was from an amp with a bad PCB layout and PSU decoupling scheme where the rectified load current (as seen in the supply paths) re-appeared as a noise voltage signal in the "reference ground".
 

RichB

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Unless we're in bizarro world where "accuracy", "finesse" and "detail" mean "drowing everything but 12 bits of the input signal into noise", I doubt their goal was achieved. Even if there are some old men shouting at clouds pretending that class D amps aren't "yet there" because they don't go up to 100 kHz for their bat music nor do they offer a free fellatio each evening after making dinner and coffee.

Please to provide a link to these full service amplifiers :p

- Rich
 

PeteL

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Music is nearer to multitone than a single tone without harmonics, unless you exclusively listen to flute solos. In practice, it is noise, even if it is correlated to the signal (so "not noise", in the signal theory meaning of noise).
Well you won't hear it as a background hiss if you turn the gain way up, that's the common universally recognized meaning of noise floor. Me I tend to agree with Amir's conclusion: "Will you hear it? At 60 dB it is probably borderline for most people." In other words, very subtle.
 
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HiFidFan

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How did this not get the headless panther? :confused:

Thanks for the review @amirm
 

ex audiophile

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Does Emotiva not have access to an Audio Precision measurement device? They should put a disclaimer on their pages: "This has somewhat poor distortion most will struggle to hear, but we opted for this instead of an increased cost of part XXXX to keep price where we want it." That would be an understandable design goal.

Kali disclosed with the original IN-8 that it hisses because producers feedback was more about lower distortion and higher SPL rather than low hiss which none of them cared much about, and the amp module would have been twice the cost at the time to get down to v2 levels of hiss which if I'm not mistaken they achieved though their own research for less than double the cost.

Hard to not assume incompetence/poor project management at this price point though from an experienced company without understanding their rationale.
Emotiva has produced some well done YouTube videos and in several they have included an audioprecision analyzer to help visualize what they showing with their products.
 

phoenixdogfan

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Not suprising. Everything they make is built to a price point. On the plus side, all distortions on the multitone are below 70db, which may be good enough for most people. If someone has really extended themselves to buy a top of the line Kef, Revel, Magico, or Focal, and now needs to find something high output to drive them for not a lot of outlay, this could be just the ticket, especially used.
 

nick-v

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It's funny, I lusted after the 3 channel version of this amp for a long time.

I ended up with an ATI AT523NC in my media room and I'm very happy with it. I'd be curious how audible the differences are (if at all). The objective measurements are very clearly and obviously in favor of the ATI.
 

PeteL

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Some random thoughts:
The high distortion is almost independent of level which is extremely unusal
I know what you mean, compared to the usual slope down, but I'd say is "completely" dependant on level, since the ratio remain fairly constant, it means the relatio with level is closer than usual, or in an other way, behave really linearly, but thats common since it's almost only distortion. the noise component is the reason thd+n goes down since noise has a constant component. in this case the noise is insignificant hence an almost constant ratio, it's expected behaviour.
 
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DonH56

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Seems like it is defective, or perhaps the rail tracking (if it really is class H) or switching (if it really is class G as the discontinuity in the THD curves would imply) is causing problems?

Whatever, my old Gen 1 Emotiva's didn't have this problem, but they are old brute-force class AB designs without the fancy power supply.
 

EJ3

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These THD would have been alright 40 years ago but an amp that powerful would have been the cost of a car, would heat your whole house in the winter and would need 4 people to lift.
Not at all. Please check out Amirm's review of one of my NAD 2200's (manufacture date 1987-89) A very similar design (unfortunately 2 OHM did not get tested, which is how I use this particular one of my TRIPLET 2200's [for running a pair of custom homebuilt subs]):
le Area
Jun 9, 2020
#1

This is a review and detailed measurements of a refurbished and upgraded NAD 2200 stereo amplifier. It was bought by a member, sent to QuirkAudio to be fully updated and then loaned to me. The work that Peter has done is exemplary. The inside looks brand new! I have repaired hundreds of amplifiers but never seen one this clean! So not only have the inside components been updated/replaced, but a lot of care has gone to cosmetically clean the unit. Peter sent me a long list of parts he has upgraded including reservoir capacitors and such. As a result, I don't know how representative of measurements are of stock units although probably not too far off. Used 2200 go for about US $530 on ebay.

The front panel is nice with an informative clipping indicator:

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As you see, you can put the amp in bridge mode (which I did not test) and select whether you want soft clipping on. I left it off as you see in the picture.

During use the protection circuit came on when appropriate and nicely reset as if nothing had happened.

The NAD 2200 uses a dual voltage rail to keep power consumption and heat dissipation low when producing lower power and then upping the voltage for peak power. This is a common technique but usually applied to low baseline power level. Here, 100+ watts of power is provided using the low voltage power supply rail and it is only for power above that where the higher voltage is used. Technique worked quite well as you see later and kept the amplifier cool and happy during my testing.

Amplifier Audio Measurements
As usual, we start with our dashboard view of 1 kHz tone into 4 ohm load at 5 watts:


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Not bad! Distortion is at or below -100 dB. With noise, SINAD degrades to about 93 dB putting the 2200 well above average of nearly 100 amplifiers tested to date:
 

PeteL

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I sure was impressed by this review of this old amp. Note tough that Amir specifically said it's an upgraded version. Not sure what this mean but here are NAD specs for this amp:
Power output: 100 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo), 400 watts into 8Ω (mono)
Total harmonic distortion: 0.03%
NAD was known to have much Higher momentary peak power tough, no doubt this was an amazing achievement especially it was not uber expensive.
The THD figure is not really that much better, it's in the ballpark where it just depends where you take the measurments, but I hear you there where great vintage amps out there, I'm just saying this one here is not particularily bad neither. I think that we should remind ourselves that what you buy an amp for is to produce power, it's the main and most important spec and this one gives you more of it than anything else tested here. There got to be some paybacks and compromise at this price, that's how I see it, and I'm sure than in listening tests it would do fine.
 

Alice of Old Vincennes

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But I don't think Emotiva is targeting Public Adress, we can doubt that anybody need that much power, I don't know, but it's certainly slightly about bragging right. It's a quiet amp, has no fans, I assume many "Old timers" In the audiophile game that don't believe in class D and chasing low SINAD, there are still many, would subjectively give high marks for something like that. Audible distortion don't necessarily mean bad sound, and not only "tube like" distortions. Nelson Pass class A designs have had even higher numbers but still have had cult like follower base, and that's just an example.
Emotiva is not targeting. They just have bad test results. Crown xls is better option.
 
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