Emotiva XMC-2 Review (AV Processor)

[thxultra]

Lonnie's test results show RMC-1 matching XMC-2 using current FW, and both are worse than what Amir measured on the earlier RMC-1.

"Why" is above my pay grade.

Dirac Live allows you to adjust the target curve to taste so, if you want more bass, you can have more bass. To a point...

Hoping they they release firmware to resolve the issue. They make great hardware but seem to struggle on the software side.

I need to try more with Dirac for sure. On my system the XMC-2 sounds great without it though. Think Dirac was a huge change also after firmware 1.9 so could be something with when they implemented Direc that caused these issues...

 

[Jbrunwa]

Hoping they they release firmware to resolve the issue. They make great hardware but seem to struggle on the software side.

I need to try more with Dirac for sure. On my system the XMC-2 sounds great without it though. Think Dirac was a huge change also after firmware 1.9 so could be something with when they implemented Direc that caused these issues...

When the RMC-1 was retested, the graph noted Reference Stereo mode. When the XMC-2 was tested the graph noted Direct Mode. The main difference is that Direct Mode includes bass management whereas Reference Stereo mode does not. The RMC-1 in Direct Mode should measure the same as the XMC-2.

 

[TimoJ]

When the RMC-1 was retested, the graph noted Reference Stereo mode. When the XMC-2 was tested the graph noted Direct Mode. The main difference is that Direct Mode includes bass management whereas Reference Stereo mode does not. The RMC-1 in Direct Mode should measure the same as the XMC-2.

I wonder if testing with these modes enabled actually tells you anything about the fact how good the unit is in normal multichannel/upmixer usage? Many functions (Dirac, PEQ, upmixer, loudness, tone) are disabled when those modes are active.
So is @amirm 's testing method of AVRs/AVPs fundamentally broken and in its current form only serves 2 channel users?

 

[Jbrunwa]

I am not an audio engineer, so I can only give my perspective as a consumer. At our house we listen to music in stereo at least half the time. Although we never listen in Reference Stereo mode, the measurement tells us the best or top line performance of the DAC and pre/amplifier in system. It is one objective measure of the engineering and care put into design and manufacture. There are other factors to consider when making a purchase such as available video and audio modes, channels, EQ facilities, reliability, support, etc.

I own an XMC-2 and an AVR-X3700H. I prefer the XMC-2 in my system because it has Dirac EQ that I like slightly better for my room, has XLR outputs (zero impact on sound quality), looks better (IMO), i like the loudness compensation better (go figure), is built in the US, and Emotiva provides more personalized tech support, and the remote control can be used in a pinch for hand to hand combat. But I could be completely happy with the AVR-X3700H, and I doubt I would be able to tell you which was which in a double blind test with music or movies in my room, and I bet that most people couldn’t.

Any way, the worst performing component in my system is my room, and the second worst is me. Or maybe it’s the other way around.

 

[HSamwel]

Their support people i spoke to about this problem admitted they dont regularly review that board so they have/had no clue there was a problem.

That’s a bit untrue.. The issue has been reported almost a year ago. Especially two users that
often do calibrations, measure with REW and changes settings had reported it several times.
It was one of them that started the thread with evidence that Emotiva had recieved in advance
much earlier.
Emotiva has just ignored it because it was only a few that actually reported it and complained.
As they usually do.. Nothing is worth fixing unless it happens to the majority of users..

There was exactly the same with the Neural:X issue.. I emailed with them several times and
even got message from Lonnie himself when support probably thought it got too complicated.
The sad thing then was that I was told that there’s only a volume difference.. Later when many
had complained they ”found” a lot of issues and got it fixed. Neural:X now sounds as it should.
Took also a better part of a year to get them to actually investigate it.

But it’s true that even though Keith often reads and writes in the forum nothing really gets
into their bug list from there.

The really bad thing with Emotiva is that they don’t seem to take pride in having the best AVP
they can make. Nothing gets added or fixed unless many needs or wants it.
And of course the extremely slow coding.. Everything they do take ages.

I got my RMC-1 more than 2 years ago. Reported several things and suggested both small
and bigger stuff. Got confirmation that they’d added these to their todo list. Still nothing has
been done.
Oh yeah, one fix they actually fixed. DTS 96/24 now actually work. Which support didn’t
seem to understand what it was. Mixing it up with DTS-HD HR. Had to send them links to
sites explaining what the format was..

 

[HSamwel]

But he is then not setting XMC-2's output for 4V voltage like Amir does for his tests?

According to Lonnie he was running the test at 4V but with input at -20dBfs.

He said most real world inputs are around this value.
0dBfs is absolute peak. Which most sources aren’t near..

Don’t know if this is true..

 

[RichB]

According to Lonnie he was running the test at 4V but with input at -20dBfs.

He said most real world inputs are around this value.
0dBfs is absolute peak. Which most sources aren’t near..

Don’t know if this is true..

It is certainly not for digit audio (music). The loudness wars has seen to that. This site has the measurements to prove it.

Album list - Dynamic Range DB

- Rich

 

[Dj7675]

It is certainly not for digit audio (music). The loudness wars has seen to that. This site has the measurements to prove it.

Album list - Dynamic Range DB

- Rich

I wish I knew more about testing at -20dBfs vs higher levels. But it seems to be that it is very common for signals to be much higher than that. Your example of music is a good one. When watching movies I watch the input meters on my Storm Audio MK2 and they get close to zero quite often. Next time I have something playing I’ll post a screenshot.

 

[twokdesigns]

That’s a bit untrue.. The issue has been reported almost a year ago. Especially two users that
often do calibrations, measure with REW and changes settings had reported it several times.
It was one of them that started the thread with evidence that Emotiva had recieved in advance
much earlier.
Emotiva has just ignored it because it was only a few that actually reported it and complained.
As they usually do.. Nothing is worth fixing unless it happens to the majority of users..

There was exactly the same with the Neural:X issue.. I emailed with them several times and
even got message from Lonnie himself when support probably thought it got too complicated.
The sad thing then was that I was told that there’s only a volume difference.. Later when many
had complained they ”found” a lot of issues and got it fixed. Neural:X now sounds as it should.
Took also a better part of a year to get them to actually investigate it.

But it’s true that even though Keith often reads and writes in the forum nothing really gets
into their bug list from there.

The really bad thing with Emotiva is that they don’t seem to take pride in having the best AVP
they can make. Nothing gets added or fixed unless many needs or wants it.
And of course the extremely slow coding.. Everything they do take ages.

I got my RMC-1 more than 2 years ago. Reported several things and suggested both small
and bigger stuff. Got confirmation that they’d added these to their todo list. Still nothing has
been done.
Oh yeah, one fix they actually fixed. DTS 96/24 now actually work. Which support didn’t
seem to understand what it was. Mixing it up with DTS-HD HR. Had to send them links to
sites explaining what the format was..

So you dont suggest the rmc-1 at this point to a new buyer that has never experienced Emotiva anything but has been unsatisfied with marantz 8805a, arcam av40, anthem avm70 having returned them all with unsatisfactory results regardless of the specs. the arcam av40 was most liked but with many bugs.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

So you dont suggest the rmc-1 at this point to a new buyer that has never experienced Emotiva anything but has been unsatisfied with marantz 8805a, arcam av40, anthem avm70 having returned them all with unsatisfactory results regardless of the specs. the arcam av40 was most liked but with many bugs.

I can't comment on the RMC-1, but I do own the RMC-1L. If you don't have much patience for bugs, the RMC-1L is not for you. We rarely watch movies now since switching the theater on is usually an ordeal. And, if I pause the movie to make some popcorn, the system usually requires a hard reboot to get video to sync when I return. Pretty miserable. It's nice when it's working, but poor reliability makes it almost unusuable.

 

[DonH56]

@dsnyder0cnn : I wanted to "like" your post, but somehow that just does not seem appropriate... I have an XMC-1 awaiting upgrade but almost three years later (and going on five since first announced, I think?) just can't make myself do it. I have moved on (SDP-75).

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

@dsnyder0cnn : I wanted to "like" your post, but somehow that just does not seem appropriate... I have an XMC-1 awaiting upgrade but almost three years later (and going on five since first announced, I think?) just can't make myself do it. I have moved on (SDP-75).

Haha. I understand. I actually had the XMC-1 also. It was (eventually) more reliable than the RMC-1L. I kind-of wish I had it back. Oh well.

 

[twokdesigns]

thanks for yiur response. havent looked up the difference in the l but yea I am not liking bugs. Ofcourse could work with them but that said theatre is my main use and would hate to invest now when the marantz 8802 I currently have is atleast bug free. Just in the search for best option under 6k with 13-16 channels that has the best dacs and moreover has sounds the best. Looked at emotiva to keep same brand going with xpa 3 7 channel amp at same time but just cant put arms around product without wireless network configuration that others have and pleanty of bugs to boot. Love the look!

 

[RichB]

I can't comment on the RMC-1, but I do own the RMC-1L. If you don't have much patience for bugs, the RMC-1L is not for you. We rarely watch movies now since switching the theater on is usually an ordeal. And, if I pause the movie to make some popcorn, the system usually requires a hard reboot to get video to sync when I return. Pretty miserable. It's nice when it's working, but poor reliability makes it almost unusuable.

The 2.3 firmware includes a feature to respect the current input. I don’t like it but. I think it is intended as an option for folks with this type of error.
Not that it helps but I do not have this problem with the TiVo Edge, Oppo UDP-205, nor with the ATV4Kv2.

- Rich

 

[Dj7675]

I played some music via Roon on the Storm MK2 and wanted the meters with some music I have been listening to and it seems to primarily live in the -10 to zero range. Much of the time it is around -5 to -1. Why would it make sense to test at -20? In roon generally use the headroom management with a setting of -3 or -5 to keep it from getting to zero. But with the headroom management off, it was routinely hitting zero as shown below.

 

[Jbrunwa]

I played some music via Roon on the Storm MK2 and wanted the meters with some music I have been listening to and it seems to primarily live in the -10 to zero range. Much of the time it is around -5 to -1. Why would it make sense to test at -20? In roon generally use the headroom management with a setting of -3 or -5 to keep it from getting to zero. But with the headroom management off, it was routinely hitting zero as shown below.

I like how they relabeled “limiter” to “headroom management”. Makes it sound like they are adding something instead of subtracting.

 

[HSamwel]

So you dont suggest the rmc-1 at this point to a new buyer that has never experienced Emotiva anything but has been unsatisfied with marantz 8805a, arcam av40, anthem avm70 having returned them all with unsatisfactory results regardless of the specs. the arcam av40 was most liked but with many bugs.

Well.. I have no serious issues really.. It mostly works as intended all the time.
With really good SQ all the time.

But a friend of mine asked if I recommend him buying Emotiva..
I said I really couldn’t even though I own one and have no big issues.
Why? Well because of his level of knowledge about audio and HT setup.
He needs something like Marantz that simply just works.
Even though Marantz can be quite complicated for total beginners as well.
But it has a better (G)UI than Emotiva which is easier to setup.

If you buy Emotiva you basically need a high level of knowledge.
You have no help and everything is text based in the menus. Also it’s
slow and cumbersome to work with.
But once you have it setup and the luck to have gear that is fully
compatible, it’s a joy to own due to the sound quality.

 

[HSamwel]

I can't comment on the RMC-1, but I do own the RMC-1L. If you don't have much patience for bugs, the RMC-1L is not for you. We rarely watch movies now since switching the theater on is usually an ordeal. And, if I pause the movie to make some popcorn, the system usually requires a hard reboot to get video to sync when I return. Pretty miserable. It's nice when it's working, but poor reliability makes it almost unusuable.

But this is not normal behaviour really..

I pause movies several times. Both streaming and from bluray..
Starting it up is no problem either. Simply works!

I don’t think I have had to do a ”hard reboot” once in +2 years.
With hard reboot I guess you mean switching it completely off with the
rocket switch..

What gear do you have connected to your RMC?

I have:
Sony 4k TV : HDMI out 2
Panasonic 1080p projector: HDMI out 1
Pioneer UDP-LX800 4k bluray: two HDMI’s in and the balanced in
Oppo BDP-103 bluray: HDMI in
TV box (dish): HDMI in
Primare NP5 network streamer: Coax in
Pioneer N-70AE network streamer: Analog in and optical in
AppleTV 4k gen 2: HDMI in
Shield Pro 2019: HDMI in

 

[twokdesigns]

The concern I have isnt necessarily the knowledge of setup but rather continual setup and yes convenience is a nice addition however im not seeing much variation at all between marrantz newest flagship av8805a to the Emotiva rmc-1 other than lack of wireless support and yes more difficult to configure with slow buggy issue that for years now with the rmc-1 have plagued it. You would think if something works that it has been engineered better than something that constantly adds new bugs to be addressed. Emotiva did report yesterday that they have most of the bugs fixed with their newest firmware however aside from 2.1 board of marantz not reporting any bugs in firware. The main issue for me and why I returned the marantz is just the sticky point of sound that is very hard to discern in a 7.1 setup I have but was a bit noticable using the arcamav40 also returned due to bugs. I definately dont have time to adress each issue going forward with a 5k investment but looking for other than Marantz options that are readily available are slim to none. Denon same boat. Was waiting on Anthem but thats another issue of who knows when and if and even at that point what might newly found bugs. Maybe I just need to go back to marantz and expect its as good as it gets for reliablity and sound quality compromise but just so hard to do when I initially sold the 8802 to get better sound quality to get as close as I can to linnov but at 6k not 13-15k

 

[HSamwel]

@dsnyder0cnn : I wanted to "like" your post, but somehow that just does not seem appropriate... I have an XMC-1 awaiting upgrade but almost three years later (and going on five since first announced, I think?) just can't make myself do it. I have moved on (SDP-75).

What is strange and sad with Emotiva is that one user can have a great
experience and the next an extremely bad one..
How this is possible at the same time with a lot on both sides is beyond me..
Pure luck? Probably bad coding that assumes too much..