Emotiva XMC-2 Review (AV Processor)

[sealman]

No, mine is not the one that was tested.
My display died and the unit would not function at all. Prior to that i had (and still do) the tremendous sluggishness changing modes or programming. When i sent it back all of that was supposed to have been fixed. The returned item worked, the display became functional but to this date, it can take 20-30sec to make changes when navigating from one point to another within the menu.
I have the latest software and it did make a minor improvement but its still a mess and frustrating to use.
Once programmed it is fine as long as you dont need to change anything.
Does it sound fine. Not with the bass boost issue. I detected something and called to see what was wrong and they told me to redo dirac. I did and not change. I did some search on the internet and found the bass boost thread on the emotiva lounge. I called support back and they he (at least the person i spoke to) nothing of which i spoke.
And in the standard emotiva style they now say they are aware of the findings and are working on it. They have no idea of if or when there will be a fix since they havent even admitted (to me at least) a problem exists.
I am glad yours is working. What works fine on mine is 2 channel, reference stereo mode only. When listening to that i am happy but i bought this as an avr and not a stereo system. if i wanted a stereo system i am confident i would not be using any made by emotiva. They dont measure well and perform up to their marketing hype ( would like to say to their specs but they conveniently dont publish any)

So are you living with the 30 second delay issue or are you sending it back again?

I had a very similar issue several months ago with out of the blue getting 30 seconds or more of lag between remote command and also getting a persistent audio dropout that could be temporarily (5-10 seconds) fixed by changing audio formats at which point the audio would dropout again.
The unit was sent in for repairs and sent back after replacing the EDA2 board . It worked fine for about 6 hours and started up with the same issues again. It was then replaced with a new unit which (knock on wood) is working fine at the moment.

Before all this started I was using 1.9 firmware which was free from the bass management problem that started with 2.1. I frankly am amazed at the lack of outcry regarding this BUG that has persisted through 3 firmware versions now.

 

[DonH56]

There's a bunch of outcry on the Emo Lounge but the bug is not yet fixed. There is a thread dedicated to the bass issue.

 

[muslhead]

So are you living with the 30 second delay issue or are you sending it back again?

I had a very similar issue several months ago with out of the blue getting 30 seconds or more of lag between remote command and also getting a persistent audio dropout that could be temporarily (5-10 seconds) fixed by changing audio formats at which point the audio would dropout again.
The unit was sent in for repairs and sent back after replacing the EDA2 board . It worked fine for about 6 hours and started up with the same issues again. It was then replaced with a new unit which (knock on wood) is working fine at the moment.

Before all this started I was using 1.9 firmware which was free from the bass management problem that started with 2.1. I frankly am amazed at the lack of outcry regarding this BUG that has persisted through 3 firmware versions now.

i dont want to send it back until i see what/if anything this bass management problem solution is going to be. The shipping is now on me so i plan on waiting until the last minute to send in and get everything fixed at once ( i am highly confident this will not be the last thing that needs fixing), if possible. The preferred alternative doesnt exist unfortunately and that would be an avr that is substantially better performing. I know it will come so i will bide my time and live with this monstrosity until it is available.

 

[muslhead]

There's a bunch of outcry on the Emo Lounge but the bug is not yet fixed. There is a thread dedicated to the bass issue.

Their support people i spoke to about this problem admitted they dont regularly review that board so they have/had no clue there was a problem.

 

[DonH56]

Their support people i spoke to about this problem admitted they dont regularly review that board so they have/had no clue there was a problem.

That is the problem with any manufacturer's forum -- people think posting to a forum is the same as posting to the support department, and that is very rarely true IME. Especially these days when a forum is likely to be set up and run by a third party with "outside" moderators and such. Chances are they (anybody, not just Emotiva) do not have somebody dedicated to watching it and a glance now and then is not enough to catch everything. They are working enough issues brought to them directly and do not go home and look for more problems only reported in the forum. In this I am on the side of the manufacturer: if you have a problem, contact support directly via email or phone, do not post to a forum and expect the support team will see it.

There are numerous other examples of similar problems, Microsoft being an obvious target since their forum support comprises mainly canned responses of little value (IMO/IME), but there are many others.

 

[RichB]

ASR got 100 dB on channel 2 for the 16 channel version so maybe it has the firmware update?

In the video, Gene said there was an update done for the analog pure mode that disabled digital outputs that pushed it to 100 dB SINAD.
The 91 to 97, I scribbled down during the video, I hope I got that right. Those are decent numbers (IMO).

- Rich

 

[apgood]

at the price Storm audio is charging , im astounded the Gene has to give them insights on how to improve their equipment

What are the Storm engineers doing to warrant $17,000 per unit ?

The ability to run the volume control in analogue mode vs digital mode to improve the noise floor and dynamic range has been the works for quite a while and is one of the key differences between the Mk1 and mk2 processors. It just took them a while to enable it in the firmware. I don't think Gene had to give them any insights there.

My experience is that StormAudio are fairly conservative in releasing features and generally make sure their products are solid. This is what differentiates them and trinnov from the others. Just look at the launch of JBL, Arcam and Emotiva they were all (and in some instances still are) a buggy mess that made their customers unwitting beta testers.

I've had a range of AVRs from a range of vendors and the StormAudio is rock solid and extremely configurable while still having a user friendly interface. A combination not easily achieved. The only other processor I'd ever contemplate getting is the trinnov but even then only the Altitude 32.

One of the great things with these 2 brands is that if you are a person that cares about squeezing out extra SINAD you can use the digital outs to some like an Okto dac and still have room correction, full decoding of Atmos & DTS:X Pro beyond 16 Channels and rock solid HDMI switching on and upgradeable platform.

With Trinnov because of its architecture most of the new features are even free as apart from a HDMI board upgrade (and maybe a future dac board uograde) most of it can be handled in software.

Those are the benefits you get from a $17k plus processor vs the cheaper ones that get replaced 12 to 24 months, some of which don't even get their bugs fully sorted out before they are superseded. Besides if you are willing to buy 2nd hand you can get the Trinnov and StormAudio processors a lot cheaper, you just need to be patient.

 

[Loron]

Funny…. Now Emotiva closed the thread. I have lost all respect for that company. Obviously trying to hide. Not professional. I was very interested because I own one of these POS.
just had to start my ApplTV and switch hdmi inputs because my universal player was reading by I had no sound. The problem was probably my Denon player of course but guess what after switching 3 times input it work and read exactly where the player was in the song. Lol.
maybe it wasn’t the Denon after all.

 

[RichB]

Funny…. Now Emotiva closed the thread. I have lost all respect for that company. Obviously trying to hide. Not professional. I was very interested because I own one of these POS.
just had to start my ApplTV and switch hdmi inputs because my universal player was reading by I had no sound. The problem was probably my Denon player of course but guess what after switching 3 times input it work and read exactly where the player was in the song. Lol.
maybe it wasn’t the Denon after all.

I don't think the XMC-2 any worse than it was 2 weeks ago.
Storm showed some better results on AH, but it appears that it was tuned to turn off processing.

Since these products are all used with processing engaged, the ASR benchmarks are a good baseline but still, we do not have measurements of performance on all channels and with processing engaged.

For all we know, Emotiva firmware 2.3 performs that same in Direct mode as the XMC-2 and RMC-1 because some processing was now engaged in preparation for DLBC. I am pleased with the RMC-1 but realize that small companies bit off a lot implementing complex processor.

- Rich

 

[rccarguy]

yeah room EQ should be enabled, but no filters applied, or use a method to trick the system that the speakers are flat waveform so any corrections on on a perfect microphone signal, so we can see what it is doing, if THD is introduced, higher noise, etc etc.

Talking of which my Tonewinner doesn't take long to boot at all, maybe 20 seconds or so. How long does the Emotiva take?

 

[RichB]

yeah room EQ should be enabled, but no filters applied, or use a method to trick the system that the speakers are flat waveform so any corrections on on a perfect microphone signal, so we can see what it is doing, if THD is introduced, higher noise, etc etc.

Talking of which my Tonewinner doesn't take long to boot at all, maybe 20 seconds or so. How long does the Emotiva take?

One minute to cold boot, I think the HTP-1 is similar but these processors have a fast boot, or as I like to call it, ersatz off
I use fast boot then it takes about 8 seconds.

- Rich

 

[DonH56]

Tonewinner designs much of the Emotiva product line, or did... I don't know about the AVPs. I have a vague memory of Emotiva saying they pulled the designs in-house but I really do not know.

My SDP-75 takes a while to boot, too...

 

[thxultra]

In the video, Gene said there was an update done for the analog pure mode that disabled digital outputs that pushed it to 100 dB SINAD.
The 91 to 97, I scribbled down during the video, I hope I got that right. Those are decent numbers (IMO).

- Rich

I was wondering the same thing about which firmware version it was running for the test. I know when he tested the RMC-1 he found a issue that Emotiva fixed via firmware. Wondering if there is a issue with the firmware version used for the test.

 

[DonH56]

I was wondering the same thing about which firmware version it was running for the test. I know when he tested the RMC-1 he found a issue that Emotiva fixed via firmware. Wondering if there is a issue with the firmware version used for the test.

As mentioned several times earlier, there is a known bug with bass management that has yet to be fixed. That (may) explain the rising noise floor in the bass region. At the end of the day, IIRC Emotiva's measurements showed numbers similar to Amir's, for the latest revs of XMC-2 and RMC-1. Lonnie posted detailed test results in the Emotiva Lounge.

 

[thxultra]

As mentioned several times earlier, there is a known bug with bass management that has yet to be fixed. That (may) explain the rising noise floor in the bass region. At the end of the day, IIRC Emotiva's measurements showed numbers similar to Amir's, for the latest revs of XMC-2 and RMC-1. Lonnie posted detailed test results in the Emotiva Lounge.

One good thing with Amir's test is they seem to give Emotiva a kick in the rear to fix some of these firmware issues. Didn't know Amir reviewed the XMC-2 until this morning also and didn't read the 20pages of comments... Would be nice to know when Amir does his reviews which firmware is on the processor. Maybe I missed it someplace in the review but I didn't see anything. Once again didn't read all the comments.

Edit: Read through some of the comments and found it was on version 2.3 on Page 6 of the comments. Would be interesting to see how it would test on version 1.9 (the version he used for the RMC1) curious if Emotiva screwed up the firmware with later versions... Too bad Amir sent the unit back already.

 

[Lsc]

One good thing with Amir's test is they seem to give Emotiva a kick in the rear to fix some of these firmware issues. Didn't know Amir reviewed the XMC-2 until this morning also and didn't read the 20pages of comments... Would be nice to know when Amir does his reviews which firmware is on the processor. Maybe I missed it someplace in the review but I didn't see anything. Once again didn't read all the comments.

It was firmware 2.3.

Emotiva is standing firm with their measurements they made after Amir’s review. They are saying the XMC2 measures the same as the RMC1 so they don’t know why ASR has a difference.

I suspect there is some noise introduced with the Dolby upmixer as Lonnie has alluded to when in 2 channel mode. How much impact this has who knows? Me and most XMC2 users are running Dirac so there is the room correction aspect of the sound too that Amir doesn’t take into account.

His tests seem more of a sanity check so when evaluating a pre/pro there are other factors to consider as well.

 

[thxultra]

It was firmware 2.3.

Emotiva is standing firm with their measurements they made after Amir’s review. They are saying the XMC2 measures the same as the RMC1 so they don’t know why ASR has a difference.

I suspect there is some noise introduced with the Dolby upmixer as Lonnie has alluded to when in 2 channel mode. How much impact this has who knows? Me and most XMC2 users are running Dirac so there is the room correction aspect of the sound too that Amir doesn’t take into account.

His tests seem more of a sanity check so when evaluating a pre/pro there are other factors to consider as well.

I have had a XMC-2 since September of 2019. I don't use the Dolby UpMixer on mine when listening to music (I do use it for movies however). I tend to use direct or reference stereo. I tried DIRAC once and with my setup I thought it sounded worse then running without it. Need to try it again and see if it was a bad measurement though. I would have expected the XMC-2 to be really close to the RMC-1 for stereo mode because from what I understand they are pretty much the same for stereo mode. The RMC-1 runs the DACs in mono mode for the other channels on top of the front 3 and has expansion ports the XMC-2 doesn't have. My guess is something with the later firmware (bass management issue mentioned above or something else) Too bad we can't see Amir's test with a XMC-2 on firmware 1.9 or a RMC-1 test on firmware 2.3...

 

[Lsc]

I have had a XMC-2 since September of 2019. I don't use the Dolby UpMixer on mine when listening to music (I do use it for movies however). I tend to use direct or reference stereo. I tried DIRAC once and with my setup I thought it sounded worse then running without it. Need to try it again and see if it was a bad measurement though. I would have expected the XMC-2 to be really close to the RMC-1 for stereo mode because from what I understand they are pretty much the same for stereo mode. The RMC-1 runs the DACs in mono mode for the other channels on top of the front 3 and has expansion ports the XMC-2 doesn't have. My guess is something with the later firmware (bass management issue mentioned above or something else) Too bad we can't see Amir's test with a XMC-2 on firmware 1.9 or a RMC-1 test on firmware 2.3...

I think I bought the XMC2 the first day it was available as I didn’t have a pre/pro at the time (was in transition).

The Dolby upmixer is never turned off so even when playing in stereo mode there is some suggestion that it’s adding noise.

Dirac has the opposite effect in my setup. I recently got Salons to replace my F228Be and without room correction the bass is just overbearing. Over 10dB from 20-40 Hz so I use Dirac with a Harman curve. If you don’t use a Harman curve, I found that doing the Harman curve just under the bass bump seem to do a real nice job smoothing out the bass. And I do a high cut off at 1kHz.

Regarding the XMC2 vs RMC1, that’s exactly correct. Emotiva also says 2 channel performance should be identical and showed their tests to confirm. So it could be a number of reason why ASR’s tests were so dramatically different but based on the initial response from Emotiva, they made a change since the RMC1 was tested that added noise to the processors.

Whether that’s audible or not who knows? Does the Denon with its room correction sound better than the XMC2 with Dirac? These are questions that ASR can’t answer and is more relevant to me since I need to use room correction.

Bottom line for me, the “lowly” XMC2 is doing a great job. Same for others XMC2 users. But there are also XMC2 users who have had lots of issues so QC could be an issue.

 

[thxultra]

I think I bought the XMC2 the first day it was available as I didn’t have a pre/pro at the time (was in transition).

The Dolby upmixer is never turned off so even when playing in stereo mode there is some suggestion that it’s adding noise.

Dirac has the opposite effect in my setup. I recently got Salons to replace my F228Be and without room correction the bass is just overbearing. Over 10dB from 20-40 Hz so I use Dirac with a Harman curve. If you don’t use a Harman curve, I found that doing the Harman curve just under the bass bump seem to do a real nice job smoothing out the bass. And I do a high cut off at 1kHz.

Regarding the XMC2 vs RMC1, that’s exactly correct. Emotiva also says 2 channel performance should be identical and showed their tests to confirm. So it could be a number of reason why ASR’s tests were so dramatically different but based on the initial response from Emotiva, they made a change since the RMC1 was tested that added noise to the processors.

Whether that’s audible or not who knows? Does the Denon with its room correction sound better than the XMC2 with Dirac? These are questions that ASR can’t answer and is more relevant to me since I need to use room correction.

Bottom line for me, the “lowly” XMC2 is doing a great job. Same for others XMC2 users. But there are also XMC2 users who have had lots of issues so QC could be an issue.

Surprised about the dolby upmixer because I was under the impression when in reference stereo all processing was disabled and basically just went right to the Volume control (analogue source) or to the DAC for a digital source. Still seems strange to me the XMC-2 would test so much worse then the RMC-1 when everything should be the same in stereo mode. Still think something was broken between firmware 1.9 and 2.3.

I will admit to liking more bass so may be the reason I didn't like the sound as much when I ran DIRAC. I only tried one time however so need to try it again to be certain.

In the same boat as you though. My XMC-2 has been great. I do think Amir's test though have found issues with Emotiva in the past that Emotiva has fixed. I also think Amir's test have been nothing but helpful in getting these issues out in the open. Something isn't right here. Could be he had a defective XMC-2 even. Wish Emotiva would do more to investigate his findings especially after he found a problem for them in the past.

 

[DonH56]

Lonnie's test results show RMC-1 matching XMC-2 using current FW, and both are worse than what Amir measured on the earlier RMC-1.

"Why" is above my pay grade.

Dirac Live allows you to adjust the target curve to taste so, if you want more bass, you can have more bass. To a point...