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Emotiva XMC-2 Review (AV Processor)

tparm

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These review threads are sometimes informative and always entertaining if not bordering on ridiculous. Everyone has and is entitled to an opinion or preference relating to manufacturers. Remarkably few that comment appear to have first hand experience with the product under review or, and I speculate, other products they recommend. @RichB has made some informative and non-attacking informed comments here and I want to say publicly I appreciate his perspective and tone. I've commented already on my experiences with both Denon and Emo gear so I won't repeat myself.

Just one last thought, there are a lot of manufacturer refreshed Denon's out there for sale, there are numerous firmware updates for all newer AVRs and processors and the well respected Anthem brand's line of processors are a mess (according to what we've seen here). This is not unique to Emotiva and personally I am somewhat more tolerant of a smaller maker like Emotiva to work through their bugs than the "household brands." I like to buck the status quo, I like the help I've received when I've spoken to folks at Emotiva, and I love the way my processor sounds, especially in two channel mode (in practice who downmixes multichannel content?).

The fact this unit measured the way it did is disappointing and I do wonder if there is a QC issue with it which understandably could put off perspective buyers and also could be an Emotiva issue they need to address. But remember a bad experience is 60% more likely to be verbalized than a positive one and there are a lot of folks out there that have had great listening and operational experiences with all types of gear. I won't be selling my RMC-1L running on FW 2.3 because it is built similarly to the XMC-2 even though a couple rapid fire posters on here sarcastically suggest owners will. I will watch with curiosity to see if Emotiva responds directly to these results other then their post on the Lounge. Hopefully they do as I for one was hugely disappointed in the whole Anthem retest / conversation updates dying which steered me from the AVM 70 to the RMC-1L.
 
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Lsc

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These review threads are sometimes informative and always entertaining if not bordering on ridiculous. Everyone has and is entitled to an opinion or preference relating to manufacturers. Remarkably few that comment appear to have first hand experience with the product under review or, and I speculate, other products they recommend. @RichB has made some informative and non-attacking informed comments here and I want to say publicly I appreciate his perspective and tone. I've commented already on my experiences with both Denon and Emo gear so I won't repeat myself.

Just one last thought, there are a lot of manufacturer refreshed Denon's out there for sale, there are numerous firmware updates for all newer AVRs and processors and the well respected Anthem brand's line of processors are a mess (according to what we've seen here). This is not unique to Emotiva and personally I am somewhat more tolerant of a smaller maker like Emotiva to work through their bugs than the "household brands." I like to buck the status quo, I like the help I've received when I've spoken to folks at Emotiva, and I love the way my processor sounds, especially in two channel mode (in practice who downmixes multichannel content?).

The fact this unit measured the way it did is disappointing and I do wonder if there is a QC issue with it which understandably could put off perspective buyers and also could be an Emotiva issue they need to address. But remember a bad experience is 60% more likely to be verbalized than a positive one and there are a lot of folks out there that have had great listening and operational experiences with all types of gear. I won't be selling my RMC-1L running on FW 2.3 because it is built similarly to the MXC-2 even though a couple rapid fire posters on here sarcastically suggest owners will. I will watch with curiosity to see if Emotiva responds directly to these results other then their post on the Lounge. Hopefully they do as I for one was hugely disappointed in the whole Anthem retest / conversation updates dying which steered me from the AVM 70 to the RMC-1L.
Lucky for you tparm, the RMC1L is the RMC1 without the expansion module - so I would “hope” they would measure the same.

The XMC2 should have measured the same for L/R so at this point it’s up to Emotiva to put all 3 on the test bench and tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth .
 

peng

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I find it frankly amazing that this negative review is getting all the attention at the moment but the persistent bass management bug gets hardly anything.

Is there a write up that explains how such "bass management bug" would negatively impact the SINAD measurements on the preamp output and even if direct mode is used?
 

tparm

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Is there a write up that explains how such "bass management bug" would negatively impact the SINAD measurements on the preamp output and even if direct mode is used?
Furthermore, isn't the bass management issue only apparent when multi-channel music is downmixed to 2CH? I don't see when this would ever occur in actual use. As mentioned in my other post, the lack of DLBC implementation is a bummer but I use a y-adaptor for my two subs, sum them (after placing them using REW and smoothing peaks using SVS built in PEQ) and run Dirac. Works like a charm although the auto-gain match of Audyssey is easier (but the calibration results require significantly more tweaking than Dirac, so......).
 

David_M

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Is there a write-up that explains how such "bass management bug" would negatively impact the SINAD measurements on the preamp output and even if direct mode is used?

I'll give it a try :) ...

Subwoofer bass, by definition, is recorded -10dB lower than all other channels., so that the summation of bass from all other channels into the subwoofer channel would not overload the channel. If bass management is messed up and this summation doesn't occur, then the sub-channel signal is still -10 lower but the noise in the channel doesn't change, hence decreased SINAD figures at the low end.
 

sealman

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Is there a write up that explains how such "bass management bug" would negatively impact the SINAD measurements on the preamp output and even if direct mode is used?
No write up that I am aware of. I was just pointing out that there are issues (bass management) with 2.2 and 2.3 that were not present with the 1.9 in the RMC-1 that was reviewed.
 

sealman

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Furthermore, isn't the bass management issue only apparent when multi-channel music is downmixed to 2CH? I don't see when this would ever occur in actual use. As mentioned in my other post, the lack of DLBC implementation is a bummer but I use a y-adaptor for my two subs, sum them (after placing them using REW and smoothing peaks using SVS built in PEQ) and run Dirac. Works like a charm although the auto-gain match of Audyssey is easier (but the calibration results require significantly more tweaking than Dirac, so......).

No it is present in all surround formats and stereo depending on your speaker size settings.
Here is where you can peruse all the info. "G3P Elevated BM & LFE Issue" at the Emotiva Lounge.
 

muslhead

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Furthermore, isn't the bass management issue only apparent when multi-channel music is downmixed to 2CH? I don't see when this would ever occur in actual use. As mentioned in my other post, the lack of DLBC implementation is a bummer but I use a y-adaptor for my two subs, sum them (after placing them using REW and smoothing peaks using SVS built in PEQ) and run Dirac. Works like a charm although the auto-gain match of Audyssey is easier (but the calibration results require significantly more tweaking than Dirac, so......).
no, go read the emotiva forum and you will find it is present everywhere except 2 channel reference mode. It cannot be fixed by dirac

Oops, look like @sealman already answered
 

David_M

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Ok, folks ... is there a 4K UHD AV processor out there (Dirac-based or otherwise) that supports all the right codecs (DTS:X, Dolby-Atmos, Auro3D, etc), latest wIfi codec support but measures audio extremely well with SINADs of -115 dB or better??? (I pray so...)
 

RichB

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Is there a write up that explains how such "bass management bug" would negatively impact the SINAD measurements on the preamp output and even if direct mode is used?

Direct in Emotiva disables most processing but bass management is applied.
Reference Stereo disables all processing including bass management and does not digitize analog inputs.

- Rich
 
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tparm

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Direct in Emotiva disables most processing but bass management is applied.
Reference Stereo disables all processing including bass management and does not digitize analog inputs.

- Rich
This may not be correct info so I am seeking clarification; I understand that the HTP-1 doesn't have an equivalent to Reference Stereo?
 

Spocko

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Ok, folks ... is there a 4K UHD AV processor out there (Dirac-based or otherwise) that supports all the right codecs (DTS:X, Dolby-Atmos, Auro3D, etc), latest wIfi codec support but measures audio extremely well with SINADs of -115 dB or better??? (I pray so...)
This should be a separate thread as it will definitely generate off-topic responses.
 

Billy Budapest

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@RichB has made some informative and non-attacking informed comments here and I want to say publicly I appreciate his perspective and tone.

Of course he has and I would expect nothing less.

At the end of the day, these are tools we use to reproduce music and even if we are passionate about music, its reproduction, the gear we use, and the science and engineering behind it, this forum should not be an avenue to attack others.
 

AdamG

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Ok, folks ... is there a 4K UHD AV processor out there (Dirac-based or otherwise) that supports all the right codecs (DTS:X, Dolby-Atmos, Auro3D, etc), latest wIfi codec support but measures audio extremely well with SINADs of -115 dB or better??? (I pray so...)
Start a new thread asking this question. Not here please. Guys this is absolutely my last warning to stay the heck on topic.
 
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amirm

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Ok, folks ... is there a 4K UHD AV processor out there (Dirac-based or otherwise) that supports all the right codecs (DTS:X, Dolby-Atmos, Auro3D, etc), latest wIfi codec support but measures audio extremely well with SINADs of -115 dB or better??? (I pray so...)
Your answer was in the review:

index.php


Putting aside the two specialized devices up top, the best we have seen is 103 dB.
 

RichB

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This may not be correct info so I am seeking clarification; I understand that the HTP-1 doesn't have an equivalent to Reference Stereo?

Direct Mode - Disables most processing but still retains bass management.
Reference Stereo - includes no post processing and no bass management for the "purist" signal.
EmotiveReferenceAndDIrectModes.jpg

The HTP-1 analog inputs are digitized, it does not have a stereo analog path.

- Rich
 

tparm

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Direct Mode - Disables most processing but still retains bass management.
Reference Stereo - includes no post processing and no bass management for the "purist" signal.
View attachment 152224

The HTP-1 analog inputs are digitized, it does not have a stereo analog path.

- Rich
Thanks Rich. Crazy.
 

sam_adams

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Over in the Emotiva Lounge thread Lonnie speculated in a post that the device may indeed be broken. If the owner were to send the device to Emotiva for evaluation and possible repair, we might just find out whether this is the device's true performance or it really was broken and it should be given another chance at passing @amirm's rigorous course of testing.
 

Robh3606

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Wow what can I say on this one?? I own one and am very happy with it. I did have some issues with software but with the latest updates it been fine. Never had a noise issue and my mains are 98db 1 meter so my system is biased to expose it. Wonder if it was broke?

Rob :)
 
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