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Emotiva XMC-2 Review (AV Processor)

SIY

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BTW Your AP project file is that way too big to post with your review?

They're generally several meg (somewhere between 10-20). But Amir has emailed them to me when I've requested them, and it's not like I'm anyone special- they're available on request.

I just finished some baseline measurements on the third piece of gear that we both have had on our benches (i.e., the specific units, not just the same model) and each time, our measurements have lined up perfectly. There's nothing hidden, all needed data are included in the reviews, and all it takes is a bit of understanding. Heck, even a short order cook in a coffeeshop can do it. :cool:
 

Zooqu1ko

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That said, I'm wondering why Emotiva wasn't told about these results prior to the publishing of them? Why is Anthem allowed to hold up a review for months while other companies are blindsided by results?
That's well documented around here. Manufacturers who send devices for measurement get an opportunity to fix problems that crop up, If the device was privately bought by a forum member and sent to Amir, that's not the case.
 
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amirm

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That said, I'm wondering why Emotiva wasn't told about these results prior to the publishing of them?
Because they have not been responsive as of late. When I tested their amplifier last and results were not good and they disputed it, I reached out to Lonnie. After getting an initial response, nothing else came back. I just have too much stuff to do and test to wait on manufacturers. They should publish their own measurements and then I don't need to contact them unless mine vary. Alternatively, if they loan me the equipment, then I will give them a courtesy look if the results are not good. This is a carrot that I provide that some companies have taken advantage of, but Emotiva has not done so.
 
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amirm

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I think you do know what you are doing. As you mentioned, your measurements have been duplicated. But it's not for people that think you know your stuff. It's an easy link for people to verify that yes, you DID have things hooked up right. Your calibrations were set like this. It can be the driest boring most detailed thing. An info dump if you will. Otherwise, you're going to have people just coming here and calling you out on stuff that could have been taken care with one detailed link.
I acknowledge that I should link to the measurement article to help with that. I just hate stuffing boilerplate stuff in reviews but being forced to do so (been doing it for speakers and headphones). Beyond that, it is hard to create comprehensive guides in text. It takes me way too long to do so. I have done some videos and will do more of them as that is easier to do. So your larger point is taken.
 

Loron

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I would disagree. it is general. It is not talking about YOUR setup. It's talking about how to do something with an AP.
This is for people that want to know if you know what you're doing and that the test conditions are repeatable. Unless there's a reason you don't want to take the time to properly document a test setup, it would be good info to have. Personally I think that there are enough instances of comparison that show you do know what you're doing AFAIK. BUT... in one experiment you mentioned a ground loop that caused you to have to remeasure etc.

Those kind of things can cause doubts which could be erased if you properly document your setup to show that you take precautions against these kind of influences. If you want these devices all in the same strip that may cause these things because it's "real world" then you need to document what your "real world" devices are.

If you want your credibility to stand, everything you do should ideally be repeatable and people should see how you're doing it. Otherwise they will wonder at your lack of transparency.
It would also be good if you included these. Measurements of your lab power supply. Measurements from your wall outlet. Measurements of your AP in its loopback mode. I don't know if AP's have calibration dates, but if it does, the last date of that. you've shown us most of these things, but it is in different areas. Put them in a section where we can find it all.
Hi, I read your post on Emotiva lounge also. Man you obviously have an agenda. For anybody cross reading these platforms that leads to very reduced credibility.
 

garbulky

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What you're asking for no one does without being paid for their time. Do you trust the IIHS safety ratings without seeing their detailed methodology?

That said, I'm wondering why Emotiva wasn't told about these results prior to the publishing of them? Why is Anthem allowed to hold up a review for months while other companies are blindsided by results?
Amir appears to not be doing this for a profit. However, I agree this kind of stuff TAKES TIME and also one has to actually be inclined to do it which @amirm likely doesn't feel like it. We have a lot of technically capable people on the forum. Maybe some of them would be willing to volunteer their time and create a detailed testing setup, process, measurements, word salad/manual of Amir's testing. It just needs to be a one time thing - or perhaps may differ based on what category (amps vs dacs vs speakers). But nevertheless, I think it only needs to be done once.
 

garbulky

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I think Amir has shown that project file in at least one (may be just one) of his educational videos. I have never seen any other reviewers including the kind of details you are suggesting in you last couple of posts.

Not saying it is not a good idea, but for someone like Amir who has been testing devices almost one per day, it may not be practical in terms of time spent on something useful/meaningful (that's just my assumption and I could be totally wrong) to include so much details just to satisfy a few who seem to want to challenge the results if and when the results don't seem to commensurate with what they paid for.:D Let's face it, if the XMC-2's results put it on or near the top of the chart, no one would likely be calling Amir out on the "stuff" you referred to..
Agreed nobody would. Look I had a hard time believing the Schiit Ygdrassil would perform the way it did. There must be a reason I thought. Maybe he has "dirty power" etc. But as time went on, I saw that Amir was able to measure incredibly low distortion gear. So that really helped his credibility in my eyes. (I still want an Yggy though :D :D )
 

garbulky

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Hi, I read your post on Emotiva lounge also. Man you obviously have an agenda. For anybody cross reading these platforms that leads to very reduced credibility.
Agenda? No. But... I am one of the very few subjectivists on this forum. That has lead to a lot of people thinking I am here just to troll. But I'm not. I'm here because I like seeing measurements and examination of audio gear in a critical light.
 

Loron

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Because they have not been responsive as of late. When I tested their amplifier last and results were not good and they disputed it, I reached out to Lonnie. After getting an initial response, nothing else came back. I just have too much stuff to do and test to wait on manufacturers. They should publish their own measurements and then I don't need to contact them unless mine vary. Alternatively, if they loan me the equipment, then I will give them a courtesy look if the results are not good. This is a carrot that I provide that some companies have taken advantage of, but Emotiva has not done so.
Still it would have been better and could only lead to more credibility. I have no doubt and appreciate the work done. But what really matters in the end is consistent credible results. I trust yours but I would have like Emotive to have a chance to talk with you before. Then again I have been pretty tough and very persistent on their thread …. This isn’t going away soon. I own one of these “maybe“pos! I want to know and don’t care about audibility or not. I just want to know.
 

garbulky

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Still it would have been better and could only lead to more credibility. I have no doubt and appreciate the work done. But what really matters in the end is consistent credible results. I trust yours but I would have like Emotive to have a chance to talk with you before. Then again I have been pretty tough and very persistent on their thread …. This isn’t going away soon. I own one of these “maybe“pos! I want to know and don’t care about audibility or not. I just want to know.
No worries. It's not a pos though. It still probably sounds great, has inaudible distortion in balanced, and has nice features. This forum just takes their measurements more "enthusiastically". They like the idea of provable transparency by ultra low distortion.
 
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amirm

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Still it would have been better and could only lead to more credibility.
Why do I need more credibility? They post SINAD measurements that match mine. Why is this still a question???

In the last go around, they called my testing in question only to find out it was a bug in their firmware. I worked with them, retested and showed improvement. I shouldn't need to do more to build up my credibility. They need to step and post full set of measurements for all their products. Ask them to do this if credibility is a factor for you.
 

muslhead

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Why do I need more credibility? They post SINAD measurements that match mine. Why is this still a question???

In the last go around, they called my testing in question only to find out it was a bug in their firmware. I worked with them, retested and showed improvement. I shouldn't need to do more to build up my credibility. They need to step and post full set of measurements for all their products. Ask them to do this if credibility is a factor for you.
Those that have done just this know the response you get back when asking. Silence .... dead silence
Like talking to a wall
 

Loron

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Agenda? No. But... I am one of the very few subjectivists on this forum. That has lead to a lot of people thinking I am here just to troll. But I'm not. I'm here because I like seeing measurements and examination of audio gear in a critical light.
Then I apologized we are looking for the same thing….
But it doesn’t look that complicated.
honestly I own one of these XMC-2 and I was told( read on websites) that is was very similar in performance to the RMC-1. I like what I saw of the RMC-1 even if not recommended by Amir. It was very close to much more expensive units that are recommended. Does it comes with its lot of other issues…. No doubts. I am willing to live with these thinking about the performance I was getting. Do I hear it….. I don’t know. Am I just another crazy audiophile measuring his room and living the dream of optimizing evertuning even if he can’t really hear the difference. Maybe but it is kind at a hobby. I want to know.
i am very frustrated at the comments I see in the Emotiva lounge. But there is a define trend of owners who want to know period. That don’t want to hear about their room floor noise or the level they listen to. I want to know if my XMC-2 is what it was represented to be performance wise. All I have seen is excises and post of different test with different input levels and different unit of measurements.
you can see my frustration.
apology again if I misunderstood you.
 

AdamG247

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Then I apologized we are looking for the same thing….
But it doesn’t look that complicated.
honestly I own one of these XMC-2 and I was told( read on websites) that is was very similar in performance to the RMC-1. I like what I saw of the RMC-1 even if not recommended by Amir. It was very close to much more expensive units that are recommended. Does it comes with its lot of other issues…. No doubts. I am willing to live with these thinking about the performance I was getting. Do I hear it….. I don’t know. Am I just another crazy audiophile measuring his room and living the dream of optimizing evertuning even if he can’t really hear the difference. Maybe but it is kind at a hobby. I want to know.
i am very frustrated at the comments I see in the Emotiva lounge. But there is a define trend of owners who want to know period. That don’t want to hear about their room floor noise or the level they listen to. I want to know if my XMC-2 is what it was represented to be performance wise. All I have seen is excises and post of different test with different input levels and different unit of measurements.
you can see my frustration.
apology again if I misunderstood you.
I think you have valid reasons and questions. But you are aiming them possibly in the wrong place. Amir does all this out of his pocket and the generosity of members. ASR has no commercial adds or Corporate Sponsors and we owe alliance to only our Membership.
 

garbulky

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Then I apologized we are looking for the same thing….
But it doesn’t look that complicated.
honestly I own one of these XMC-2 and I was told( read on websites) that is was very similar in performance to the RMC-1. I like what I saw of the RMC-1 even if not recommended by Amir. It was very close to much more expensive units that are recommended. Does it comes with its lot of other issues…. No doubts. I am willing to live with these thinking about the performance I was getting. Do I hear it….. I don’t know. Am I just another crazy audiophile measuring his room and living the dream of optimizing evertuning even if he can’t really hear the difference. Maybe but it is kind at a hobby. I want to know.
i am very frustrated at the comments I see in the Emotiva lounge. But there is a define trend of owners who want to know period. That don’t want to hear about their room floor noise or the level they listen to. I want to know if my XMC-2 is what it was represented to be performance wise. All I have seen is excises and post of different test with different input levels and different unit of measurements.
you can see my frustration.
apology again if I misunderstood you.
No probs :) We're good. If I were going to buy a processor it would likely be an XMC-2 or RMC-1 L. But I would like to hold out for HDMI 2.1 support.
 

Lsc

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5AA38BB2-E55F-4751-84DB-EE6683BA2C5D.jpeg
I wish I bought the RMC-1L…lol.
Me too. But my XMC2 sounds great today like it did last week.

Something is off and who knows what that is. I’m sure my salons sound just as good as Amir’s salons even with my lowly XMC2. I believe Lonnie since he is the one who designs these units.

Still, I could have gotten the RMC1L as someone gave me a free 40% card but oh well…I know if I threw a midrange receiver here it wouldn’t sound as good despite the SINAD provided here.
 
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peng

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Agenda? No. But... I am one of the very few subjectivists on this forum.

Haha, thank you for being so honest. I do wish you would find ways to do some serious level matched apples to apples DBT/or even SBT comparison listening and see if you are convertible from the subjective side to the other side.:D
 

David_M

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@DonH56 ... do you mind posting the Emotiva test results of the two processors in question into this forum as some of us are not members of the Emo Lounge? Thanks!
 

peng

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Me too. But my XMC2 sounds great today like it did last week.

Something is off and who knows what that is. I’m sure my salons sound just as good as Amir’s salons even with my lowly XMC2. I believe Lonnie since he is the one who designs these units.

Still, I could have gotten the RMC1L as someone gave me a free 40% card but oh well…I know if I threw a midrange receiver here it wouldn’t sound as good despite the SINAD provided here.

I believe 80 dB, or 100 dB SINAD in that one test will both sound good if other important things are done right and well. Still, I won't buy the one that measured 80 dB, all else being equal if the other one measured much better. It is not about audibility, more about why couldn't they design/build the thing to measure 100 dB SINAD level of transparency if the other one can do it for the same or less money? To me, failing to do so is an indicator that they are not serious enough about something, QA, shielding, grounding, etc., I really don't know but they should know, can't be rocket science right? I know some will say SINAD is not the important, or not the decisive factor in terms of sound quality and I understand that very well, but that's why I would always qualify my points with "all else being equal..", "not about audibility but about the principle, engineering excellence, etc. etc....."

Same thing about preamp processor that sells for $15,000 or more that won't even use flag ship level DAC ICs such as the AK4499, ES9038Pro, OPA's with average specs, average quality volume control ICs etc. People will say its not the ICs that matters, it is all about "implementation", but then my argument is, if the company would spend time on doing implementation right, why not use the best or at least next best, even next next best available DAC ICs regardless? If using the more expensive ICs result in $200, surely those who can afford a $15,000 AVP wouldn't mind another $200 if they know from the spec/info sheet that they are getting the way above average ICs for the DAC, volume control, and buffer OPAs etc. And the chance of measuring better on the bench will most likely improve if better ICs are used in the audio chain from input to output.
 
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