Emotiva RMC-1+ AV Processor Review

[NicS]

Just a quick update from Emo-World. Even though the debate about the ASR review of the RMC-1+ processor was ongoing, the moderators on the Emotiva forum saw fit to lock that particular thread, preventing any further discussion, at least for now, with this message:

"We will publish full detailed specs utilizing current firmware next week. As you know, we operate with total transparency and are confident in the performance of this platform. We will publish our normal test data along with the same test methodology of ASR."

This is a bit of a turnaround. And a welcome one. I hope the "current firmware" addresses the noise issue, just as a firmware update in the previous generation improved the audio performance too. I suppose the next thing to do is to get someone to let Amit test their R<C-1+ with the new firmware, and perhaps with the CR8 upgrade too. NOTHING would make me happier to see the RMC-1+ on the top of the leader table for AVP/R's. Well, not nothing. But you get my drift.

Again, I'd like to stress this, the people at Emotiva have always been helpful and courteous to me. While I'm rattled by their highly defensive action to Amir's assessment, I shouldn't be surprised; this is their baby and I'm sure they are heavily invested from an emotional standpoint. Which is why the response was heavy on defensiveness.

 

[amirm]

I've always wondered what the bandwidth was for this test as it has a noise component. From your quote above it sounds like the DAC is running at 48 kHz and measurement bandwidth is 24 kHz, is that correct?

Michael

The input sample rate (to analyzer) is at 96 khz with bandwidth of 45 khz. So you are right that it captures noise as well as intermodulation.

 

[Lsc]

Just a quick update from Emo-World. Even though the debate about the ASR review of the RMC-1+ processor was ongoing, the moderators on the Emotiva forum saw fit to lock that particular thread, preventing any further discussion, at least for now, with this message:

"We will publish full detailed specs utilizing current firmware next week. As you know, we operate with total transparency and are confident in the performance of this platform. We will publish our normal test data along with the same test methodology of ASR."

This is a bit of a turnaround. And a welcome one. I hope the "current firmware" addresses the noise issue, just as a firmware update in the previous generation improved the audio performance too. I suppose the next thing to do is to get someone to let Amit test their R<C-1+ with the new firmware, and perhaps with the CR8 upgrade too. NOTHING would make me happier to see the RMC-1+ on the top of the leader table for AVP/R's. Well, not nothing. But you get my drift.

Again, I'd like to stress this, the people at Emotiva have always been helpful and courteous to me. While I'm rattled by their highly defensive action to Amir's assessment, I shouldn't be surprised; this is their baby and I'm sure they are heavily invested from an emotional standpoint. Which is why the response was heavy on defensiveness.

The week ends tomorrow for them. NicS you have been great showing patience and giving Emotiva the benefit of the doubt. I’m not surprised by their reaction since it was pretty similar to when the RMC1 was reviewed. They obviously don’t think ASR’s reviews are important. 16 channel processor reviews that only show test results from left and right channel…not very comprehensive. But what’s funny is that these reviews are why I want to go check out the Marantz… as I posted in the Emotiva forum about thinking that $7-8000 is a bit much but the ASR review has me curious at least and has me shying away from getting the + models so…

My guess is the Emotiva’s test results of the RMC1+ will not be better than the ones taken for the RMC1. So, most likely they will drag their feet until people just move on and stop waiting.

 

[NicS]

The week ends tomorrow for them. NicS you have been great showing patience and giving Emotiva the benefit of the doubt. I’m not surprised by their reaction since it was pretty similar to when the RMC1 was reviewed. They obviously don’t think ASR’s reviews are important. 16 channel processor reviews that only show test results from left and right channel…not very comprehensive. But what’s funny is that these reviews are why I want to go check out the Marantz… as I posted in the Emotiva forum about thinking that $7-8000 is a bit much but the ASR review has me curious at least and has me shying away from getting the + models so…

My guess is the Emotiva’s test results of the RMC1+ will not be better than the ones taken for the RMC1. So, most likely they will drag their feet until people just move on and stop waiting.

I have no interest in seeing Emotiva fail.

Emotiva has a business model that favors enthusiasts. They are engaged and responsive, which in this case has devolved into knee-jerk defensiveness and “Rooster Whipping”. Anyone who attacks the messenger needs to take a hard look at themselves. I’m hoping that Emotiva redeems themselves. They must know by now they have made a PR boo-boo by seeking to dismiss or denigrate informed analysis, no matter how narrow the methodology. All it has done is to create a schism in their own community.

In a world where optimism can seem foolish, I hope this situation helps Emotiva in the long run. I also hope we’ll see a review of the CR8 upgrade that retains the older DAC / audio board.

 

[xaxxon]

one would expect a dedicated processor to at least perform its reduced duties relative to an AVR more competently than one. but there are many such cases where it does not. so it is a knock against the class of AV separates.

no, no one cares what the stuff you shouldn't buy does. Only what the stuff you should buy does.

It's like car companies that say they have the best fuel economy across their line of cars. Who cares if you're not buying all the cars.

 

[Goodfellas27]

I sold mine after over a decade of waiting for them to fix their bugs with their SSP, and never looked back

 

[Lsc]

I sold mine after over a decade of waiting for them to fix their bugs with their SSP, and never looked back

That was a sound move. Emotiva in ignorance mode now. Once my XMC2 dies, that’ll be the end of my relationship with Emotiva as well.

 

[Lsc]

Emotiva did release a new firmware for the RMC1 / XMC2 with eARC hdmi board (v5.5) that has made a big difference in performance and stability. I had to adjust how I use the unit because the remote app doesn’t work anymore but I no longer have to reboot every few days when using eARC.

So there has been some progress.

One caveat. If you have the old hdmi board this firmware doesn’t support it. Maybe the next version.

 

[NicS]

I would agree. The v5.5 firmware did improve performance, especially with regard Atmos. I’d be curious to see if this is a measurable improvement, echoing the ASR review of the original RMC-1 and the more favorable review post firmware update.

I still haven’t upgraded my own RMC-1L to either the CR8 version (updated HDMI board only) or the full RMC-1L+ (updated HDMI and Burr Brown based audio board), mainly because of Amir’s review. Though I cannot see the point of shelling out a few more grand for an update that underperforms compared to what I already have.

Being an Emotiva customer feels like being a casual follower of a cult; I’m certainly not one of the true believers. But I have a guarded respect for what Emotiva is doing. Just wish they weren’t so thin skinned about criticism, instead diverting their energies from defensiveness to fixing their product.

 

[dlaloum]

I would agree. The v5.5 firmware did improve performance, especially with regard Atmos. I’d be curious to see if this is a measurable improvement, echoing the ASR review of the original RMC-1 and the more favorable review post firmware update.

I still haven’t upgraded my own RMC-1L to either the CR8 version (updated HDMI board only) or the full RMC-1L+ (updated HDMI and Burr Brown based audio board), mainly because of Amir’s review. Though I cannot see the point of shelling out a few more grand for an update that underperforms compared to what I already have.

Being an Emotiva customer feels like being a casual follower of a cult; I’m certainly not one of the true believers. But I have a guarded respect for what Emotiva is doing. Just wish they weren’t so thin skinned about criticism, instead diverting their energies from defensiveness to fixing their product.

There has been discussion elsewhere, that Dolby has updated their decoder/mixer, with substantial audible improvements.

This was noted by a Marantz AV20 buyer on Audioholics...

He was upgrading from previous generation Marantz AVP (7706), the technical measurements/specs showed an improvement that should not have been audible... but the actual sound was substantially better - the primary difference being later onboard software (firmware) that includes the latest Dolby decoder/mixer.

This would apply to other components and brands - the trouble is, the manufacturers don't advertise the specific version of Dolby & DTS software included in their firmware (and potentially updated with firmware updates)...

So something to watch for (and ask for) is information files with updates that specify the actual versions of the various licenced software that is included in the package.

 

[Lsc]

There has been discussion elsewhere, that Dolby has updated their decoder/mixer, with substantial audible improvements.
…
.

This may explain why the RMC1+ owners noticed better sound when they upgraded from the RMC1.

I just watched the lost bus on Apple TV app and the surround sound immersion was as good as ever and I only have 5.1. Very happy with the new firmware.

It’s be nice if companies were more transparent.

 

[NicS]

My current dilemma is this:

If the v5.5 firmware improves sound quality on both the G4 RMC-1+ and the G3 RMC-1, then any claimed sound quality improvement with the "+" processor may just be confined to the updated firmware (specifically the new Atmos codec) on both versions. I'd be curious to know if the G3 RMC-1 audio board with it's AKM AK4490 DAC outperforms the G4 audio board with it's much older Burr Brown / TI design.

My suspicion is that the audio side of the G3 will measure better, and sound better than the G4. Which makes the upgrade pointless, as I don't need 8K, HDMI 2.1 or 4K @120hz offered in the G4. All I'd be getting is quicker input switching.

What a mess.

 

[timg]

There's a CR8 upgrade that replaces the processor and gets you most of the latest features / decoders, but keeps your existing AKM audio board. This should theoretically keep or exceed the original audio performance and puts you on the latest platform for updates and support. IIRC, this is what some of the Emotiva team did for their own personal processors...

 

[Lsc]

My current dilemma is this:

If the v5.5 firmware improves sound quality on both the G4 RMC-1+ and the G3 RMC-1, then any claimed sound quality improvement with the "+" processor may just be confined to the updated firmware (specifically the new Atmos codec) on both versions. I'd be curious to know if the G3 RMC-1 audio board with it's AKM AK4490 DAC outperforms the G4 audio board with it's much older Burr Brown / TI design.

My suspicion is that the audio side of the G3 will measure better, and sound better than the G4. Which makes the upgrade pointless, as I don't need 8K, HDMI 2.1 or 4K @120hz offered in the G4. All I'd be getting is quicker input switching.

What a mess.

I’m still having issues with eARC and switching inputs with loss of sound unless I put the XMC2 in Lowest power mode. I’m dealing with the long boot up time vs upgrading. Also I need the app for eARC because I can’t see the display when in eARC.

Emotiva has communicated on multiple occasions that the + model sounds better. To your point, maybe the measurements say otherwise and honestly I don’t need the sound quality to be any better than what I have with fw 5.5. After re-running Dirac it sounds better than ever and the bass is crazy good coming out of my pair of Gothams and F112.

 

[RichB]

I’m still having issues with eARC and switching inputs with loss of sound unless I put the XMC2 in Lowest power mode. I’m dealing with the long boot up time vs upgrading. Also I need the app for eARC because I can’t see the display when in eARC.

Emotiva has communicated on multiple occasions that the + model sounds better. To your point, maybe the measurements say otherwise and honestly I don’t need the sound quality to be any better than what I have with fw 5.5. After re-running Dirac it sounds better than ever and the bass is crazy good coming out of my pair of Gothams and F112.

I cannot say for sure if the RMC-1 + sounds better, it sound very good and I really appreciate the new video board with QMS-VRR support with my LG G5.

At this point, the CR8 measures better. The AKM chips are far more expensive, so there is that.
I would certainly consider a CR8 upgrade.

- Rich

 

[Lsc]

I cannot say for sure if the RMC-1 + sounds better, it sound very good and I really appreciate the new video board with QMS-VRR support with my LG G5.

At this point, the CR8 measures better. The AKM chips are far more expensive, so there is that.
I would certainly consider a CR8 upgrade.

- Rich

The QMS-VRR support is there on my G4 as well so maybe the CR8 makes sense.

Considering that I have one source (PS5) that I barely use anymore, I’ll just stay put for now and enjoy the better surround sound while I wait for Emotiva to release their measurements they boldly stated they would… I’m holding my breath because it might be a while.

 

[NicS]

I agree Rich....

The CR8 upgrade certainly seems to be the way forward right now, though I'm not rushing to drop the cash. I have a sneaking suspicion that Emotiva will be taking another look at their "updated" audio board, with its very dated DAC chip set, and questioning the logic of that decision. Having said that, I have some hope that a subsequent firmware upgrade will improve the performance of the Burr-Brown based audio board.

I've long since given up on hope that the original promises of the RMC-1L being fulfilled. It was quite a long list. For example, I have been told that native DSD via USB would be "available soon, in a future firmware update". After all, it was in their original specification sheet. As a consequence, I drifted away from using my RMC-1L for anything but multichannel applications, using a Topping DAC/Pre combo for all two channel listening. Any multichannel DSF files I have remain unplayable.

Of all the AV products current available, the only one that ticks all the boxes is the Marantz AV20.

 

[RichB]

I agree Rich....

The CR8 upgrade certainly seems to be the way forward right now, though I'm not rushing to drop the cash. I have a sneaking suspicion that Emotiva will be taking another look at their "updated" audio board, with its very dated DAC chip set, and questioning the logic of that decision. Having said that, I have some hope that a subsequent firmware upgrade will improve the performance of the Burr-Brown based audio board.

I've long since given up on hope that the original promises of the RMC-1L being fulfilled. It was quite a long list. For example, I have been told that native DSD via USB would be "available soon, in a future firmware update". After all, it was in their original specification sheet. As a consequence, I drifted away from using my RMC-1L for anything but multichannel applications, using a Topping DAC/Pre combo for all two channel listening. Any multichannel DSF files I have remain unplayable.

Of all the AV products current available, the only one that ticks all the boxes is the Marantz AV20.

I was taking a hard look at the Marantz AV20, but I don't think it has the updated HDMI chip that supports QMS-VRR.
That is a deal breaker for me.

- Rich

 

[NicS]

While the addition of QMS-VRR would be great, it’s not as a high a priority for me.

The only way I can get my RMC-1L to boot consistently right now is to have the Ethernet and HDMI cable to my projector unplugged. Tedious.

 

[Fidji]

I agree Rich....

The CR8 upgrade certainly seems to be the way forward right now, though I'm not rushing to drop the cash. I have a sneaking suspicion that Emotiva will be taking another look at their "updated" audio board, with its very dated DAC chip set, and questioning the logic of that decision. Having said that, I have some hope that a subsequent firmware upgrade will improve the performance of the Burr-Brown based audio board.

I've long since given up on hope that the original promises of the RMC-1L being fulfilled. It was quite a long list. For example, I have been told that native DSD via USB would be "available soon, in a future firmware update". After all, it was in their original specification sheet. As a consequence, I drifted away from using my RMC-1L for anything but multichannel applications, using a Topping DAC/Pre combo for all two channel listening. Any multichannel DSF files I have remain unplayable.

Of all the AV products current available, the only one that ticks all the boxes is the Marantz AV20.

My neighbor was in love-hate relationship with his Emotiva processor. He gave up some time ago and has gone Marantz route and he says, that only now he realizes, how broken Emotiva design was. [in terms of stability, small nagging issues, weird choices]. Now he and his family can just turn the gear on and enjoy without anxiety that something will or will not work this time.

Now with Dirac ART available on D&M processors - I think Emotiva is just left behind technologically and offers inferior user experience. I would cut the losses and enjoy the content, instead of having to focus on the gear.