Emotiva RMC-1 AV Processor Review

[Maconi]

Is this really true?! Mic-In doesn't matter to me, but the regular channels do...

You can check with an app like this (there are similar apps on IOS as well):

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dwa_ict.polaritychecker&hl=en_US

 

[AudiophhileInTraining]

Ah come-on, they're not that bad.
The DC-2 DAC, replacement for the discontinued DC-1, was only announced in June of 2017.
Should be here any day now.
https://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/50256/dc-2

Hi everyone, I'm new to the audio file space but I've got a few questions and would love someone to help give me a little bit of grounding. As a current owner of the RMC-1L and a prior owner of the XMC one, I have to say that I'm a little surprised at first how poorly these results came out, and second, how much grief emotiva and the RMC 1L has been given about these results.

First, when I look at the compilation of tested systems it looks like the emotiva systems are the best preamp theatre processors you've tested. How can you be so harsh when you've yet to find or profile a better processor?

Second, you give the RMC 1L a lot of grief for the signal to noise being well below the theoretical capacity of the underlying chip sets. However, the case is the same across many other of the hallmark DACs you've profiled. For example, the Oppo HA1 is at 109 vs rated perfoamce of their chioset of 135. For second example, the highly regarded and ~$2.5k DAC-only Schiit Yggy which many of my audio file friends rave about is rated below the RMC 1L and has far less functionality (aka, no video, theatre, etc). It also receives scores on your test well below it's rated SINAD.

So, with these in context, why are we giving Emotiva and the RMC-1L such a hard time? (I ask to understand, not in jest... I'm a beginner audiophile.)

Plz accept my "audiophile" -> audio file typos, I voice dictated this and didn't want to risk loosing the rest of the post.

FWIW, I have largely been happy with my RMC-1L and would love to try to replicate these results at home. Also, I thought the sound was a bit better on the XMC-1, but I've done no room correction on my RMC. For lack of better language, the XMC seemed to have a better noise floor / absolutely no reminent static from the speakers when volume was off. Any guidance of correcting my RMC would be appreciated!

Thank you all!

 

[DonH56]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the audio file space but I've got a few questions and would love someone to help give me a little bit of grounding. As a current owner of the RMC-1L and a prior owner of the XMC one, I have to say that I'm a little surprised at first how poorly these results came out, and second, how much grief emotiva and the RMC 1L has been given about these results.

First, when I look at the compilation of tested systems it looks like the emotiva systems are the best preamp theatre processors you've tested. How can you be so harsh when you've yet to find or profile a better processor?

Second, you give the RMC 1L a lot of grief for the signal to noise being well below the theoretical capacity of the underlying chip sets. However, the case is the same across many other of the hallmark DACs you've profiled. For example, the Oppo HA1 is at 109 vs rated perfoamce of their chioset of 135. For second example, the highly regarded and ~$2.5k DAC-only Schiit Yggy which many of my audio file friends rave about is rated below the RMC 1L and has far less functionality (aka, no video, theatre, etc). It also receives scores on your test well below it's rated SINAD.

So, with these in context, why are we giving Emotiva and the RMC-1L such a hard time? (I ask to understand, not in jest... I'm a beginner audiophile.)

Plz accept my "audiophile" -> audio file typos, I voice dictated this and didn't want to risk loosing the rest of the post.

FWIW, I have largely been happy with my RMC-1L and would love to try to replicate these results at home. Also, I thought the sound was a bit better on the XMC-1, but I've done no room correction on my RMC. For lack of better language, the XMC seemed to have a better noise floor / absolutely no reminent static from the speakers when volume was off. Any guidance of correcting my RMC would be appreciated!

Thank you all!

Virtually all AVRs/AVPs have performed very poorly compared to stand-alone DACs. The RMC has not been denigrated more than any other; it is among the top of the heap though performed below the XMC-1. It seems commonly accepted that a device (AVR/AVP) doing so much will not fare as well as a dedicated device, but a lot of us are wondering why not, since we have designed other systems with similar constraints that achieved high performance despite things like DSPs in the box... Hopefully we can help the industry improve by presenting measurements. I would not be surprised to find they cannot at a given price/performance ratio but thought they'd do better, particularly some of the high-end units that have not performed well.

As for Emotiva, they responded well when pushed into admitting the problem, and were quick to fix it -- very commendable. If only other things had gone as well -- it's what, 12-18 months after the first shipments, FW is still buggy (though improved), and still no Dirac Live? Their whole handling of this situation has me questioning whether to upgrade my XMC-1 or not despite the hefty price reduction with the trade-in program. I've been holding off to see Dirac Live running.

 

[timg]

FYI, firmware 2.0 is out and Dirac kits are shipping.

 

[Vasr]

Virtually all AVRs/AVPs have performed very poorly compared to stand-alone DACs.

One relevant fact is that there has been only one multi-channel stand-alone Dac that has been measured while almost all of the AVRs/AVPs are multi-channel DAC units. The sample space is too small to conclude that all multi-channel stand alone DACs would necessarily also fare better than AVR/AVPs.

 

[Matias]

One relevant fact is that there has been only one multi-channel stand-alone Dac that has been measured while almost all of the AVRs/AVPs are multi-channel DAC units. The sample space is too small to conclude that all multi-channel stand alone DACs would necessarily also fare better than AVR/AVPs.

Okto dac8 Pro and Lynx Hylo have been measured here, but also RME ADI-8 and MOTU 8A would measure well. These are all good options for multichannel DACs from the pro audio companies.

 

[TonioRoffo]

Is this processor now recommended after the much better measurements of the newer firmwares?

 

[Rxw]

Firmware has greatly improved since this review and the processor now has Dirac. It works exceptionally well for me.

 

[JohnBooty]

Is this processor now recommended after the much better measurements of the newer firmwares?

I'd be interested in third-party measurements, if you have a link to recommend.

 

[DonH56]

Well, I'm not planning on getting one, had enough fun and games with them for a while.

However, FW release 2.1 is now out, and seems to have fixed most of the issues 2.0 had, so you have a good chance of Dirac Live working. It only took them what, almost two years from when they first shipped the RMC-1?

 

[Martin]

Is this processor now recommended after the much better measurements of the newer firmwares?

It seems the lack of a recommendation in Amir's revised review was based upon Dirac still not being present. With Dirac it may now get a recommendation.

Emotiva's website still says Dirac is coming soon:

Martin

 

[timg]

It seems like 1.10 was the magic pre-Dirac firmware for most in terms of stability, but there were a few bugs left. They even re-started the owners thread to focus on the processor and not banished bugs.

2.0 added Dirac and a LOT of complaints. The processors are now shipping with Dirac kits in the box and Dirac compatible firmware installed.

Over on the Emotiva forums, owners are overwhelming happy with 2.1 so far- enough that there's now talk of once-again creating a new owners thread to focus on post FW 2.0. 2.1 seems to perform better and be more stable than 1.10, while also including Dirac. With any luck, this is finally the stable, full-featured release owners would have hoped for at launch.

 

[AudiophhileInTraining]

Is this processor now recommended after the much better measurements of the newer firmwares?

I got my Dirac Live kit (running Dirac Live 3) and did an initial/quicker setup this week. I've definitely noticed an improvement. However, for the testing here, I think the question would be to try testing with the Dirac live filters engaged (as opposed to in reference mode which turns off all filtering, to my understanding).

Not surprisingly, the Dirac has made a significant difference. Also, it seems to have made some meaningful changes to the output gain as part of the changes (at least I'm assuming). As a result, my volume dial is running much higher for standard listening (maybe -20 range vs previously -40 range), and the Audio science results showed that it performed better the closer it got to reference/0 volume... Not idea whether or not that's contributing to the performance.

I am noticing the improvements in firmware/input switching (though still takes a second), reliability, and definitely sound both from stereo listening w Tidal Master tracks via USB DAC and other via Toslink input, and especially in my current 7.1.2 speaker setup (likely going to 9.3.4 or 7.3.6 once I move to some in wall speakers for ceiling rear and 2 in-wall subs.

...happy to share about my setup or try to run any sample tests or tracks you'd like... I'm new so I make no statement about my ability to run any tests accurately.

I can also expand on the Dirac setup exp if you like.

 

[Martin]

WAIT A MINUTE...

Does Emotiva's "Dirac Interface Kit" really contain a Raspberry Pi??? And it requires a hard wired network connection? Is this a joke? I think I'll pass...

Martin

 

[TonioRoffo]

I got my Dirac Live kit (running Dirac Live 3) and did an initial/quicker setup this week. I've definitely noticed an improvement. However, for the testing here, I think the question would be to try testing with the Dirac live filters engaged (as opposed to in reference mode which turns off all filtering, to my understanding).

Not surprisingly, the Dirac has made a significant difference. Also, it seems to have made some meaningful changes to the output gain as part of the changes (at least I'm assuming). As a result, my volume dial is running much higher for standard listening (maybe -20 range vs previously -40 range), and the Audio science results showed that it performed better the closer it got to reference/0 volume... Not idea whether or not that's contributing to the performance.

I am noticing the improvements in firmware/input switching (though still takes a second), reliability, and definitely sound both from stereo listening w Tidal Master tracks via USB DAC and other via Toslink input, and especially in my current 7.1.2 speaker setup (likely going to 9.3.4 or 7.3.6 once I move to some in wall speakers for ceiling rear and 2 in-wall subs.

...happy to share about my setup or try to run any sample tests or tracks you'd like... I'm new so I make no statement about my ability to run any tests accurately.

I can also expand on the Dirac setup exp if you like.

Thanks for your reply. I'm very happy with Dirac live 3 running on a PC (nuc) in the stereo part of my setup, but I want to migrate surround to Dirac as well. It's still a very expensive processor for me, and I think even more so because I'm in Europe.

The dirac levels being lower is normal. There has to be headroom for every db of gain the curve needs to correct your audio or you'd be clipping.

Do you use CEC and what is your experience? Thx

 

[DonH56]

WAIT A MINUTE...

Does Emotiva's "Dirac Interface Kit" really contain a Raspberry Pi??? And it requires a hard wired network connection? Is this a joke? I think I'll pass...

Martin

Yes. They explain the need for an external processor somewhere in the Emotiva Lounge; I don't remember the details. Something about needing to translate for their internal processor (DSP). You only need it to run Dirac Live when you set it up, then can disconnect. With my XMC-1 I wired the processor to a media bridge that was wireless to my network; worked fine. At least they supply the kit for free.

 

[ElNino]

Yes. They explain the need for an external processor somewhere in the Emotiva Lounge; I don't remember the details. Something about needing to translate for their internal processor (DSP). You only need it to run Dirac Live when you set it up, then can disconnect. With my XMC-1 I wired the processor to a media bridge that was wireless to my network; worked fine. At least they supply the kit for free.

It's actually a great idea that they included the Raspberry Pi to avoid issues with getting the Dirac Live configuration software to connect with the processor... a lot of people seem to have issues with that on various Dirac-enabled devices. But it's probably a bit of an indictment of Dirac's software design that Emotiva found it necessary.

 

[digicidal]

It's actually a great idea that they included the Raspberry Pi to avoid issues with getting the Dirac Live configuration software to connect with the processor... a lot of people seem to have issues with that on various Dirac-enabled devices. But it's probably a bit of an indictment of Dirac's software design that Emotiva found it necessary.

It's a "bit of an indictment" alright... however, I'd be putting the blame in a different location. There are plenty of issues with Dirac live... especially with the software plugin versions - but that is pretty unlikely to be the entire reason Emotiva found it necessary. Emotiva has also found it necessary to post firmware updates in obscure places in their forums (with far less than clear instructions) which have bricked, hobbled, etc. many different versions of every processor they've sold AFAIK.

I salute their attempts... but you do get what you pay for with them... or less! I've spent thousands on gear from them... and only the amps have been somewhat trouble free (though not terribly quiet or efficient in any cases). I'm glad they're eventually coming through with something they should have had implemented and trouble-free from the first sale release... but this is far from impressive or comforting I would think. I'll go with Monoprice if I want the budget Dirac-enabled processor... they have much, much better customer service (at least in my experience).

The room correction and audio performance might be slightly (and inaudibly) worse on my Marantz 8801... but both of it's upgrades happened in the background with nothing more than a button on the remote control required.

 

[Sal1950]

The room correction and audio performance might be slightly (and inaudibly) worse on my Marantz 8801... but both of it's upgrades happened in the background with nothing more than a button on the remote control required.

I agree with that. I've been tempted to get a Emo processor a number of times, not only Dirac but I found them very handsome and offering a promised lot of bang for the dollar. But each time I did some homework before hand, I read about all the bugs and unhappy customers all over the net. On the other hand my Emo DC-1 DAC/ Headphone Amp has been running flawlessly for over 5 years now
But instead I"ve always went with the Marantz, having owned a AV7701 and AV7703. I've never had an issue with either, neither in normal operation or from numerous firmware updates to both. They may not have measured as well as I'd prefer but something has to be said for reliability too.

 

[Dj7675]

Happy to hear Emotiva owners have Dirac and that firmware has also improved.