Emotiva BasX A2 + PT2 = Dud or Delight?

[Connor1a]

I just received a pair of Elac Debut 3.0 DF63s. After a nerve wracking experience getting them out of their boxes (the boxes were damaged during shipping), I have them up and singing. My initial thought, and what I’m using right this moment, was to use a Sonos Amp to drive them. I’m a long time Sonos customer. Prior to this, for many years, everything I’ve brought into the house has had the Sonos logo on it. I really can’t complain about Sonos to be honest. I have Arcs, Fives, Subs, Ones, Beams etc… It’s all worked as advertised. However, while I wasn’t really affected by the recent S2 software fiasco, I decided to try something outside of the walled garden this year (an early Xmas present). Elac received rave reviews in the price range I’d budgeted + has a 30 day return policy. So I pulled the trigger on the floor standers. Given the Sonos footprint in my home, and the Sonos Amp’s performance on paper (emphasizing on paper…), it made sense to me to use an Amp to drive them. Best of all worlds and all that.

Well, I’m not overwhelmingly thrilled with the performance I’m getting right now. Please bear in mind, I am NOT an audiophile. I’m just a guy who likes music. I don’t have a sound engineer’s vocabulary. I’ve been to precisely one too many punk concerts as a kid. My hearing isn’t ideal. This is from listening only ~8 hours. Rock / punk / R&B / contemporary. The Amp is dead silent at high volumes with no music playing. The highs are almost painful at higher volumes. They’re harsh. I can’t figure out the mids. Sometimes they’re veiled. Others not so much so. Lows, to me, are subdued. Soundstage is compressed. Channel separation is meh. Admittedly, my room is not ideal. Not by a long shot and I know that this is a part of the calculus. It’s a long and thin room. I can only get ~7’ max between the speakers. The baffles are perhaps 12” to 14” from a wall corner. I have them toed in maybe 10 to 15 degrees (pointing as close as I can to the apex of the triangle). There’s furniture in the way. It’s just not a great listening space, but it’s real life out in the wild you know? How much of this is pure speaker vs amp / Amp is unknown to me. Again, I know some of it is the room which really is what it is. There’s little I can do about that. However, I suspect some is the Amp as well. Which finally leads me to the reason for the post…

I pulled the trigger on an Emotive BasX A2/PT2 combo to see how that stacks up against what I’m getting from the Amp. I think this combo, + a Sonos Port, should give me a factor of 2x or 3x the performance + function of the Sonos Amp by itself. That’s based purely on cost lol. I’m doubtful anyone reading this has run that combo yet, but I thought I might get lucky. Anyone got this up and running? Any feedback on how it shows? If not, anyone gone from a Sonos Amp to an Emotiva combo? If so, how was the transition? Did you find it better / same / worse than the original? I did see several threads concerning the Emotivas here, but didn't see any actual reviews. Perhaps I missed something? Finally, again I have that 30 return policy in play, for the price points, are there better options? It’s hard not to get sucked into the YouTube hype on these things. Worst case, if the Emotivas don't clean up the sound of the Elacs, I’ll take a look at returning the speakers as well and perhaps choose a bookshelf vs a floor stander as that’d fit into my room easier (even if it doesn’t have the potential longevity). Comments eagerly appreciated…

As always, thanks in advance for your thinking. It’s sincerely and humbly appreciated. /s

 

[djb]

No one else answered. I'm a music lover too and really enjoy my Emotiva year; I have the same combo. Lots of clean power. I wasn't as happy with the PT1 with the fixed 90 hz bass management. I'm using a sub and Linton speakers and wanted more bass output from the main speakers. Emotiva let me trade in the PT1 for the PT2 and I'm much happier with the adjustable bass management set to about 55 hz.

In the never ending quest for 'better' looking at upgrading my dac now. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Connor1a]

No one else answered. I'm a music lover too and really enjoy my Emotiva year; I have the same combo. Lots of clean power. I wasn't as happy with the PT1 with the fixed 90 hz bass management. I'm using a sub and Linton speakers and wanted more bass output from the main speakers. Emotiva let me trade in the PT1 for the PT2 and I'm much happier with the adjustable bass management set to about 55 hz.

In the never ending quest for 'better' looking at upgrading my dac now. Enjoy the journey.

Thank you for the reply. I’m now debating the A1 monoblock vs the A2. Decisions decisions. Did you by chance consider any other option prior to going with Emotiva? I tried the Sonos Amp (as I have many of the little black boxes in my house). I wasn’t thrilled with it. I’ve been reading about the Outlaw monoblocks. They appear to get great reviews here on ASR. I’m even looking at some Class D amps like the Fosi to see how they do while Amazon has 90 day returns for the holidays. I’m not totally dissatisfied with the A2+PT2, quite the contrary, I’d just like to know what else is out there at the same price point (+/- 500$) and better performance. I’ll be living with the gear for some time! TYVM again for the reply.

 

[djb]

I researched a lot and played around with a couple other amps I have including an older 100 watt Dennon amp and some cheap class D stuff. Fosi Sound was decidedly thinner at higher volume but honestly I think as long as you are getting enough clean power to your speakers most people would not be able to tell the difference in a blind test. Warfedale Lintons benefit from a little more power.

I looked hard at Outlaw but features and specifically the bass management had me choose Emotiva. Their new integrated amp looks good, IF you like the appearance.

 

[Connor1a]

For some odd reason, I’m a separates guy. I like the flexibility to mix and match functionality to suit my needs (ah heck - it’s mainly because I like gadgets). I don’t much mind the Emotiva “look” per se, but it’s not the best looking set of boxes I’ve seen. Then again, it’s far from the worst. My issue right now is that I have a set of Elac Debut 3.0 DF63s that are distorting at higher volumes. I’m not sure whether it’s the preamp / amp or the speakers. Both the speakers and the preamp / amp are new to me so I’m not sure where to start. To figure it out, I was thinking I could either demo a new set of speakers or try a different amp setup. I was thinking of trying a pair of BasX A1 monoblocks which would give me a bit more headroom over the BasX A2 amp I have right now. I know it’s a stretch. Otherwise, I was looking real hard at trying a set of Wharfedale - Lintons (Crutchfield has a pair of Heritage speakers w/ stands for 1500$). Which set of Lintons are you running now? You’re happy with the Emotiva pairing? That’d be my second option…

 

[djb]

I am no expert id bet your speakers are distorting. You are putting out a legit 160 watts into 8 ohms with that A2. That amp will will drive any reasonable speKer out there.

I love my Lintons and have the same one's you are referencing. Get them if you like the looks and vintage vibe. They sound great and will play loud if needed. You don't need a subwoofer but I do have a RSL 10s II in this system. I'm mostly a classic rock, blues, Americana genre listener.

It's really hard to make these decisions mainly based on reviews. Wish there were more hifi stores to go try this stuff.

 

[Connor1a]

I can keep the Elacs until the end of January. I feel guilty keeping them while I trial another set, but not THAT guilty. It’s Amazon. They get plenty of my money. I’ll probably pull the trigger on the Lintons just to hear them even though sending one set back eventually will be a pita. My other challenge in all this is that my room is small. It’s a rectangle so not only do I suffer with limited space from the wall, but I have a couch right in front of one speaker position as well. It blocks the one of Elac’s woofers on my right channel. It’s tight for a floor stander. Room tuning won’t fix it. I can sort of lessen the soundstage issue w a slight balance correction. The Linto stand may help that, but the back port issue won’t change much(?). As for music, I’m similar. Alt rock, old school rock and punk, blues and then some jazz. Listening to Billy Joel right now. Db meter says I’m running high 80s / low 90s if that gives you an idea. That’s about average for me cruising online. Thankfully my neighbors are patient with me (and I try to limit bad language at higher volumes when the kids are out and my windows are open lol)…

 

[djb]

I love my Lintons but you mY want too check out the Kef R3 Metas for a smaller room. Check our Erin's Audio most recent video "Top 6 bookshelf speakers". Good luck

 

[Jeezer]

I spent a while thumb-twirling through these forums when I finally decided to swap out my adolescent best buy "hi-fi" LG stereo to something with some heft. I eventually settled on the Emotiva PT1 and A2 into a pair of Elac DB2.0 6.2s and the only issue I've had so far is my PC audio driver fighting with the PT1 on occasion.

 

[Connor1a]

I love my Lintons but you mY want too check out the Kef R3 Metas for a smaller room. Check our Erin's Audio most recent video "Top 6 bookshelf speakers". Good luck

So I have a pair of Lintons coming in Wednesday. Watch this space lol….

 

[djb]

So I have a pair of Lintons coming in Wednesday. Watch this space lol….

I bet you will love them, visually and sonically.

 

[Koeitje]

I pulled the trigger on an Emotive BasX A2/PT2 combo to see how that stacks up against what I’m getting from the Amp. I think this combo, + a Sonos Port, should give me a factor of 2x or 3x the performance + function of the Sonos Amp by itself.

The Sonos Amp is not bad at all if you don't use the analog input on it. If you don't like the sound then 99,99% of the time its the speakers and not the amplifier. Also don't forget that if you use the Sonos Five that those aren't bad at all, just maybe a bit bright in-room. Reviews for the Fives and the Amp are all on this website. The older BasX A-100 amplifier was reviewed on here also and I'd pick the Sonos Amp over it any day of the week. I can pretty much guarantee that those Emotiva parts aren't going to improve your situation. If you really don't want to worry about amplification I wouldn't pick Emotiva, any modern class D amplifier will run absolute circles around it in terms of both power and distortion.

 

[Connor1a]

The Sonos Amp is not bad at all if you don't use the analog input on it. If you don't like the sound then 99,99% of the time its the speakers and not the amplifier. Also don't forget that if you use the Sonos Five that those aren't bad at all, just maybe a bit bright in-room. Reviews for the Fives and the Amp are all on this website. The older BasX A-100 amplifier was reviewed on here also and I'd pick the Sonos Amp over it any day of the week. I can pretty much guarantee that those Emotiva parts aren't going to improve your situation. If you really don't want to worry about amplification I wouldn't pick Emotiva, any modern class D amplifier will run absolute circles around it in terms of both power and distortion.

So I ordered a set of Lintons from Crutchfield. They’ll arrive tomorrow. I can try them w/ the Sonos as well as with the Emotiva A2. Which Class D would you recommend as a comparison? The Amp? Were I return the Emotiva kit, that’d mean I’d loose my preamp. I looked at the Fosi mono v3s, but held back due to the need for a decent preamp. Would you have a recommendation? My price point is in that 1k$ range for the amp + preamp. Thanks so much!

 

[Connor1a]

I just thought of something, I could use a WiiM preamp no? I’ve been trialing a WiiM Ultra. I need to look back it again tomorrow when I have a moment, but that may be a possibility…

 

[Koeitje]

So I ordered a set of Lintons from Crutchfield. They’ll arrive tomorrow. I can try them w/ the Sonos as well as with the Emotiva A2. Which Class D would you recommend as a comparison? The Amp? Were I return the Emotiva kit, that’d mean I’d loose my preamp. I looked at the Fosi mono v3s, but held back due to the need for a decent preamp. Would you have a recommendation? My price point is in that 1k$ range for the amp + preamp. Thanks so much!

You can something get with a Hypex MP module as an amplifier. Preamp I don't have any quick recommendations, I use a stereo DAC as preamp but you can also use certain streamers.

Edit: I see the 502MP is slightly more than you'd want to spend if you also want to buy a preamp.

 

[livinon2wheels]

I have a TA1 used in preamp mode driving a Hypex NC502 class D into a pair of Ohm Walsh 2000s with a couple of SVS PC2000 subs and have had no issues integrating the subs into that system. I am running the Ohms full range and augmenting their low end with the subs from the sub output. The nice thing about the SVS is they have DSP PEQ built in so you can tailor the subs response to your room and make them blend with the mains. It took some time to get it right but it sounds sweet now. I was listening the other day (briefly) at 110 db and nice and clean. Before I switched to the class D it still sounded really good but with only 80w/channel at 6 ohms the speakers were somewhat shortchanged on clean power at high levels. At more normal levels (80-85 db) perfectly clean and acceptable on the built in amplifier. I am wondering if your speakers present a more difficult load to the amp then the manufacturer's specs might indicate. Just a thought... that said, my particular combination is a happy one for me. I also wonder if integrating your sub into your system could be made easier from an audible standpoint by moving the sub to another location in the room. I know moving them around is a PITA but that might make a huge difference in your perceived sound quality.

 

[Connor1a]

I was listening the other day (briefly) at 110 db and nice and clean.

You make my heartstrings sing… Lol.

I have a TA1 used in preamp mode driving a Hypex NC502 class D into a pair of Ohm Walsh 2000s with a couple of SVS PC2000 subs and have had no issues integrating the subs into that system. I am running the Ohms full range and augmenting their low end with the subs from the sub output. The nice thing about the SVS is they have DSP PEQ built in so you can tailor the subs response to your room and make them blend with the mains. It took some time to get it right but it sounds sweet now. I was listening the other day (briefly) at 110 db and nice and clean. Before I switched to the class D it still sounded really good but with only 80w/channel at 6 ohms the speakers were somewhat shortchanged on clean power at high levels. At more normal levels (80-85 db) perfectly clean and acceptable on the built in amplifier. I am wondering if your speakers present a more difficult load to the amp then the manufacturer's specs might indicate. Just a thought... that said, my particular combination is a happy one for me. I also wonder if integrating your sub into your system could be made easier from an audible standpoint by moving the sub to another location in the room. I know moving them around is a PITA but that might make a huge difference in your perceived sound quality.

110 db eh? A listener after my own heart. I try to keep it below that, but I find myself up in that range more often than is strictly good for my hearing. I’m already the victim of precisely one too many punk gigs as a kid…

My setup has changed since I opened this thread (due in large part to the great input from folks here on ASR). It now looks like:

WiiM Ultra -> NCx500 monoblocks -> Linton Heritage 85s

Depending on the recording, I’m modestly happy with that chain. What I mean is that I have niggling issues with the WiiM when changing sources (its a bit of a pita if you’re using the app vs the remote) and I’m still figuring out the placement of the Lintons (the NCx500s are providing plenty of power now). But when I get that clean, hires recording via stream, it sounds pretty darn good…

I’ve yet to make a decision on a sub though. The Lintons are “full range” speakers so I’ve had them in a wait and see mode to decide whether I need a sub. I’ve been kind of looking at the SVS SB-1000 Pro. It gets decent reviews and would be small enough for me to fit in my space… But I’ve only enough for one more upgrade this year. It’ll need to be a sub or a preamp or possibly a turntable. I’m not sure which atm. Biggest bang for my buck may well be the sub… Glad you’re enjoying your system. So nice when it finally comes together!

 

[livinon2wheels]

For my money, just about any full range speaker can benefit from sub support. My primary system has had subs for about 30 years. These have changed 4 times in that amount of time and each time I tried living without the subs, I regretted it. I was always happier with the sound signature once I added subs back in. Its my guess you will be too. Further that money put into a sub, will add a larger incremental improvement than any piece of electronics you might buy. There was a formula way back in the day that said out of your total system budget, 2/3 of it should go towards the speakers. While that is not an absolute by any means, its not a bad target. The speakers are by far the weakest link in the chain in most systems. The variables in sound quality vary a lot more from speaker choice than by any electronics choice. So that said, adding a sub or a pair is a logical next step.
I have been a rock and roller since early teen years, but my musical tastes aren't limited to rock and roll, but I do like to occasionally, at least for a few minutes, listen to something at live levels. If that happens to be rock and roll, its gonna be loud. Having the capability to do that is as much a part of recreating the realism desired in my home as any other aspect of making that illusion convincing. Dynamic range is huge. This is in part why I have such a hard time understanding what drives people towards low powered tube equipment but that is a whole different discussion. Every primary system I have had over the last 20 years has been, once configured properly, 115 db capable over the full audio range. That doesnt mean I listened at those levels anywhere near all the time, but with that kind of headroom, I was able to appreciate digital canons on the 1812 overture recording with some semblence of their actual power and in theater mode appreciate the thrum of a helicopter or gunfire as part of a movie soundtrack. The subs my previous system had with the amplifier I was using were capable of 118db plus a bit at the listening position, the mains were pretty well maxed out at 115db but that made a good live concert recording a breathtaking experience. One of my favorite movies to use as a demo was Hunt for Red October. Reason was the low frequency content from the sub propulsion was subsonic and was palpable. The music in that soundtrack was so well recorded. Terrific experience and a great story. Hard to beat that.

 

[Connor1a]

I still consider myself an alt rocker, but I was a DJ as a kid in the mid to late 80s so spun everything with a beat (and a fair amount of without one). I still wax lyrical with my kids and share mosh pit scar stories. Those were the days. Lol… Today, I listen to a lot of everything, from what might be considered “world music” to more traditional jazz and blues (I grew up in the California Bay Area where the jazz was amazing - I knew that even as a kid). I’ll stare hard at the sub. It may be that + a wall mounted shelf for my turntable (unfortunately, I live in a circa ‘30s / ‘40s home where I can my hear footsteps through the tonearm of my turntable when playing an album - so I walk very softly). I appreciate your reply. Thanks for that. Rock on man.