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Emotiva BasX A-500 5-ch Amplifier Review

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amirm

amirm

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I noticed a lot of gear with torroids appear to exhibit hum on your test. Have you tested your own power and are you willing to show the measurements?
You couldn't find a less insulting way to ask that question? What do you think, that I know something causes that hum and I am keeping it a secret from membership? To what end?

Regardless, what exactly you want me to measure about my power? What have you measured about your power? How do you know your power is not worse than my power?

And what do you mean you notice toroidal transformers cause this in my reviews? Here is the ATI AT522NC I reviewed recently:

index.php


The mains noise at 60 Hz in one channel is at -135 dB and -140 dB in the other channel. In this review, the Emotiva is whopping 60 dB worse! Here are the guts of the ATI:

index.php

Clearly it uses a toroidal transformer.
 

Xulonn

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But if you already own an AVR, I'd rather spend $500.- on a stereo amplifier for the fronts and music and leave the smaller effect-channels to the AVR.

Expanding on your excellent approach, @martijn86 , I'm surprised that more members here don't rely on a high quality two channel system for the fronts and separate three/five channel amplification that drives center and surround speakers - that should be selected to have sonic a signature similar to the front speakers. If I had a larger room, I would consider a basic AV preamp like the Optoma (Nuforce) AVP-18 ($700) or possibly the Outlaw 975 ($550 for 1080p or $700 with 4K video add-on). Images of both below...

Using an AV preamp and dedicated two-channel amplification for the front speakers with a multi-channel "sub-system" seems like a logical option, especially for those on a budget. One could use a line-level RCA (or XLR) 2-channel source switch between either of two "sources" - RCA output from an AV preamp (which functions as an HDMI "audio extractor" and DAC - or from your music-only high-fidelity music system DAC/preamp. This "selectable" 2-channel source would be connected to the high-quality amp that drives the main speakers. When switched to "AV", the AV preamp would feed your front-channel audio from the video source to the "good" stereo amplifier, and also drive your center and surrounds through the lower-quality multichannel amplifier.

My preference for AV component design is to have it as simple as possible. I don't like rows of extra connectors that I will never use. And I still don't understand the need for component, composite and S-video inputs on the below Outlaw preamp (which also includes an AM/FM tuner). However, I really do like the clean design of the Optoma/Nuforce unit, which has just the basic modern necessities - four HDMI inputs and one output, and RCA outputs for all of the audio channels. The Optoma/Nuforce design is at least 6 years old, but it seems to have a unique blend of features that really appeal to me.

If I were looking for a budget AV system, I would seriously consider a combination of the AVP-18 and the Emotiva 5-channel amp that is the subject of this thread - or any decent budget 5-channel amp, since 3-channel amps are rare. One could just not use the 2 extra channels - or add a pair of side speakers that match your surrounds.

(It is difficult to find low-powered 3-channel amplifiers suitable for only surrounds and a center speaker, but 5-channel amps are quite common. The 3-channel amps I found while doing research for this post seem to be higher-powered for front and center speakers, or the front speakers and a subwoofer - but there are some excellent higher-powered 3-channel amps that show up regularly on the used market.)

For me, when I watch movies and other videos (excluding music videos), the music simply adds to the breadth and depth of the experience, and I focus on what is happening on the screen, and not the background music. Therefore, for me, sound quality for the surrounds would not be as important as for my main speakers. However, it would seem logical to have a center speaker with an excellent midrange to enhance the clarity and intelligibility of the spoken word.

I would like to see Amir test this unit, but I doubt that any member in the U.S. has one, and is willing to send it to Seattle for testing, even though it only weighs 4.6 pounds. (@Kal Rubinson did a "Music in the Round" review of this AV preamp back in 2013, and found it to be a good budget AV component, but with some flaws.)

Nuforce AVP-18.jpg


Outlaw 975 AV Preamp.jpg

But of course, not all AV Preamps are basic and simple - here's a $2,200, 11.2 channel Marantz 7703 :

Marantz 7703.jpg
 

5wavesup

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I own the Emotiva A300/PT100 combo. How much should I read into this A500 review? The A300 is a 2-channel amp so no need to worry about the channel differences or should I. Also, how much do I need to spend on an amp to hear a noticeable difference? I will say, once that darn fan kicks on, it is really loud. I don't have an itch to upgrade, just curious. At the time of purchase these two items seemed to be reaching a pretty good point on the diminishing returns curve. Thanks for the review @amirm

Keep up the good work
 
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amirm

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The A300 is a 2-channel amp so no need to worry about the channel differences or should I.
One channel or both may be suboptimal. Or could be good. :) Based on this measurement, seems like there is no performance spec for each channel. I should say that I find channel differential often but this one is rather extreme.

Also, how much do I need to spend on an amp to hear a noticeable difference?
It is hard to say. If you turn the volume gradually higher and higher does the bass ever get weak? Or you hear any distortion or noise? If not, then don't worry about it and use it as is.
 

jruser

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I've been wondering about these BasX models. Been considering one for my bedroom system. I've gotten rid of all of my Emotiva gear in my main system, except for a XSP-1. Hoping to replace it with a HPA4 some day.

I'd like to see more AB amps reviewed. Not a lot around in the price range. The setup up from here would be the Monoptice Monolith (ATI) series. Would love to see one of those measured here.
 

5wavesup

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One channel or both may be suboptimal. Or could be good. :) Based on this measurement, seems like there is no performance spec for each channel. I should say that I find channel differential often but this one is rather extreme.


It is hard to say. If you turn the volume gradually higher and higher does the bass ever get weak? Or you hear any distortion or noise? If not, then don't worry about it and use it as is.

Thanks for the quick reply...When I push it, I am not hearing any distortion or weakness in bass...And although the fan is annoying, I cannot hear it while playing the music, for the most part. I ran some sweeps on REW over the last couple of weeks, perhaps I will take a look at the distortion levels...then I will read up on what the heck I am looking at. :)
 

5wavesup

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Handy I am not...This guy ain't opening up nothing...I had to return the first one, the fan was on constantly on...I will see what I can do about moving it to a more open space. It's in a shelf where as the preamp is on top of the entertainment console.
 

garbulky

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You couldn't find a less insulting way to ask that question? What do you think, that I know something causes that hum and I am keeping it a secret from membership? To what end?

Regardless, what exactly you want me to measure about my power? What have you measured about your power? How do you know your power is not worse than my power?

And what do you mean you notice toroidal transformers cause this in my reviews? Here is the ATI AT522NC I reviewed recently:

index.php


The mains noise at 60 Hz in one channel is at -135 dB and -140 dB in the other channel. In this review, the Emotiva is whopping 60 dB worse! Here are the guts of the ATI:

index.php

Clearly it uses a toroidal transformer.
I apologize for any rudeness.

The hum present brings down the number on SINAD and SNR so it makes sense to ensure it's not from an external source like the power. I'm not sure what metrics qualify as "clean AC power" but I'm sure you would. Perhaps simply measuring the AC output and displaying it would be a start? Is that possible? Would you publish those results along with any other metrics related to quality of ac power?

I don't measure my power because I don't measure my gear. But if it was easy for me to have cleaner power I would. But since you are measuring gear and publishing measurement results I think it's a fair question because it pertains to test conditions and your test setup. Even if you think it doesn't matter due to "real world conditions" I don't see the reason not to publish your findings. If you have clean ac power and another person does not but both measure with an AP and obtain different results, it would be an easy pointer to the differences.
 
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garbulky

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I own the Emotiva A300/PT100 combo. How much should I read into this A500 review? The A300 is a 2-channel amp so no need to worry about the channel differences or should I. Also, how much do I need to spend on an amp to hear a noticeable difference? I will say, once that darn fan kicks on, it is really loud. I don't have an itch to upgrade, just curious. At the time of purchase these two items seemed to be reaching a pretty good point on the diminishing returns curve. Thanks for the review @amirm

Keep up the good work
If your fan is kicking in during normal use, something's wrong. It's not supposed to kick in except in "extreme" cases.
 

patate91

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I own the Emotiva A300/PT100 combo. How much should I read into this A500 review? The A300 is a 2-channel amp so no need to worry about the channel differences or should I. Also, how much do I need to spend on an amp to hear a noticeable difference? I will say, once that darn fan kicks on, it is really loud. I don't have an itch to upgrade, just curious. At the time of purchase these two items seemed to be reaching a pretty good point on the diminishing returns curve. Thanks for the review @amirm

Keep up the good work


I just setup my main system with a minidsp 2x4 HD + Emotiva A-100 and A-300.

The only noise I hear is from the minidsp. Note that I have high sensitive speakers. (Only from horn).

I worked on my room's acoustic, I don't see any benefits with amps upgrade.
 

gvl

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I apologize for any rudeness.

The hum present brings down the number on SINAD and SNR so it makes sense to ensure it's not from an external source like the power. I'm not sure what metrics qualify as "clean AC power" but I'm sure you would. Perhaps simply measuring the AC output and displaying it would be a start? Is that possible? Would you publish those results along with any other metrics related to quality of ac power?

I don't measure my power because I don't measure my gear. But if it was easy for me to have cleaner power I would. But since you are measuring gear and publishing measurement results I think it's a fair question because it pertains to test conditions and your test setup. Even if you think it doesn't matter due to "real world conditions" I don't see the reason not to publish your findings. If you have clean ac power and another person does not but both measure with an AP and obtain different results, it would be an easy pointer to the differences.

What the heck is cleaner power in the context of these results? How can "cleaner power", whatever it is, reduce the hum that hapens at the mains frequency? If your power is ideal it is an exact 60Hz sine wave in the US, which will bleed in a bad design exactly the same as "contaminated" power at that frequency.
 

MusicNBeer

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This is really a poor showing from a company touting their extreme value. This seems an average value at best.
 

garbulky

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What the heck is cleaner power in the context of these results? How can "cleaner power", whatever it is, reduce the hum that hapens at the mains frequency? If your power is ideal it is an exact 60Hz sine wave in the US, which will bleed in a bad design exactly the same as "contaminated" power at that frequency.
I'm interested in learning more about what you said.
 
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amirm

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DonH56

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How much clearance is around the amp?

Can you swap preamp and amp positions?
 

5wavesup

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How much clearance is around the amp?

Can you swap preamp and amp positions?
Yes that’s is what I am going try first. The amp is on a shelf that is only open to the back so gonna start there...
 

DonH56

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Yes that’s is what I am going try first. The amp is on a shelf that is only open to the back so gonna start there...

For starters, since it is only the two-channel version and if you've the room, you could just pull it out and place it on the top beside the preamp or on the floor (on a big piece of wood or cardboard if carpeted) so it is "in the open" and see if the fan stays off. It could be defective, and/or you could be pushing it harder than expected.
 

scooter

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Regarding this 60 Hz mains leakage, I assume it is due to a bad filtering design after the bridge rectifier, because normally toroidal transformers have less leakage of magnetic flux decreasing the chance of inducing it at later stages.
 
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