Emotiva Airmotiv 6s Powered Speaker Review

[napilopez]

Never meant to imply anything about budget, or home size, or anything of that matter. Stating dual subs are necessary for high fidelity is not a subjective opinion, or any kind of judgment about peoples choices, but rather just an objective statement. L/R speakers placed for imaging will have very poor bass response below 300 Hz and eq cannot fix large nulls or dips in the response. Poor frequency response is not high fidelity. Most of the time, I don't think people *can't afford* or are *unable to place* dual subs. Most often, imo, they choose not to in the pursuit of "pure" sound by using 2 channel with no eq. So it is a bit ironic that, in the quest for the best sound, we purposefully choose lower fidelity by foregoing subs.

As an example, I see many many examples of folks with $2,000/pair+++ speakers running 2.0 without subs. This is a choice that is not about what one can afford. There are plenty of affordable solutions for decent little subs such as the JBL 550p that often goes on sale for $189. It is true, I don't think it makes sense to spend thousands on speakers and gear, obviously in the quest for great sound quality, only to limit fidelity by choosing to run without sub or subs. Obviously, people can set up their systems however they choose, but 2 speakers without subs is not the objectively high fidelity system. So doing so if the goal is sound quality doesn't make sense.

It goes without saying that if someone has a tiny space, apartment or are completely controlled by a spouse, a sub might not be an option. I wouldn't use one if I was in an apartment.

As far as having ideal response at one specific location, that simply comes down to user preference. I could have a "perfect" response at the MLP if I chose to sit completely still in one spot at all times, but I chose to have a very good response at all seats, can sit wherever I choose, move around if I want, and not have a poor response. It sounds great everywhere. But you are absolutely correct that a perfect average response results in a less than perfect response at most positions. But I choose very good everywhere.

Cool, we're mostly in agreement! Sorry if I came off argumentative. I definitely am all in the "get a sub" camp for people who refuse to get a sub for the sake of "purity," not for lack of space or other reasons.

In my case, somewhat limited subwoofer positioning options means sometimes full-range sounds a bit better - with the Phantoms I wasn't ever really able to get my subs to sound better than just letting the Phantoms play full range. I'm sure I would've been able to with some more messing around with positioning and EQ but I wasn't sure it was worth the hassle.

And yeah, it's all about the primary LP for me. The way my furniture is set up I pretty much never have to sit elsewhere, and my girlfriend isn't someone who notices these things.

You don't really need to spend a lot of money on subs, less than the difference between bookshelf speakers and the tower version most of the time. In my extreme case I bought some cheap Polk PSW 505 subs a few years ago for 200 each and have EQ'd them flat from 20-100Hz in my room. So for about $1400 for 2 Bookshelf speakers and 2 Subs, I have good response from 20-20k, no tower is going to come close to that. I don't have much room for subs myself but I made it work by placing short stands on my subs and putting my speakers on top, you lose some of the placement benefits of the subs but it's still better than towers without subs.

For the record, I'm not saying a 2 Channel setup without subs is going to sound terrible or anything but it's just not possible to match a proper multi-sub setup if you're going for the smoothest response.

Sure, that's an option, and again, I always agree bookshelf + sub >>tower. If it can't do a clean 30Hz, it can't play a lot of the music I like well. I just wish more sub companies took a little care in aesthetics... Luckily I don't need too much in the way of SPL so small subs I can tuck away do the trick for me.

 

[jhaider]

What do you mean? There is a large suckout vertically off-axis at the crossover region.

Two large suckouts, technically.

However, if you look at the vertical polar map you see that except for those two deep but fairly small nulls the match is surprisingly good.

The directivity match is doubtless due to the fact that the two drivers aren't that different in size, at least in the vertical axis. Small woofer and big long AMT.

That's why I'm fairly surprised. With the long AMT I was expecting more effect from the presumably wide center-to-center driver spacing. I wonder what the actual "center" of an AMT is, i.e. if it acts substantially as a line array as it approaches the same size as the wavelength it's playing. 2.5kHz is about 5.5" or 14cm.

 

[restorer-john]

You apparently have a different standards for what is "necessary" for high fidelity system. That's totally fine, but you also imply that the person who can't afford to get two good subs (or a home big enough where that would be feasible) is not able to enjoy "high fidelity" sound.

I just can't get into subwoofers. Don't like the disjointed sound, regardless of low you cross them or how close you place them (even under) the main speakers.

They just gather dust at my place and are never used.

 

[tomtoo]

I just can't get into subwoofers. Don't like the disjointed sound, regardless of low you cross them or how close you place them (even under) the main speakers.

They just gather dust at my place and are never used.

I have the same problem. If prever two fullrange.Maybe it's my brain? But at least i'am not alone.

 

[Wombat]

I would rather put the added volume of the subs into the mains - with high Bil woofers, of course. More convenient, less wiring and simpler DSP.

MHO.

 

[restorer-john]

Maybe it's my brain?

No, it's not your brain. All subwoofers signal their location, no matter how expensive or well "integrated" they supposedly are. Be it at the cinema, a multi thousand dollar home theater, a carefully set-up sub/sat combination or whatever. They simply sound disjointed. Play with phase, delays whatever you like.

They're really only good for explosions in movie soundtracks for me, and even then, decent mains are more than good enough. But then again, I'm not a bass-head. I don't want a punch-in-the-guts, over the top sound typical of a massively amplified drum set in a small live club- that's already wrecked it for me.

 

[Wombat]

Any JBL M2 owners feel the need for subs?

They mostly seem to be a band-aid in applications using inherently limited( due to design, environment limitations, fashion, WAF or other reasons) smaller main loudspeakers. That's OK, but not a be-all.

 

[tomtoo]

No, it's not your brain. All subwoofers signal their location, no matter how expensive or well "integrated" they supposedly are. Be it at the cinema, a multi thousand dollar home theater, a carefully set-up sub/sat combination or whatever. They simply sound disjointed. Play with phase, delays whatever you like.

They're really only good for explosions in movie soundtracks for me, and even then, decent mains are more than good enough.

I see that exactly the same like you.

 

[tomtoo]

But we are on ASR so i say it's maybe my brain. Usualy i know where the sub is. Never did a blind test.

 

[tomtoo]

And i'am oldfashiond. When it comes to my frontspeakers i still think size matters.

 

[restorer-john]

Never did a blind test.

Anyone who thinks a sub-woofer or multiple sub-woofers can't be located easily and audibly has rocks in their head. All the BS about "proper integration" is just that. The only time it gets harder to pick the location is when the sub-woofer level is so low it's hardly worth having it on at all.

I even built (commercial cabinet kit) a huge twin bandpass subwoofer in a cabinet about the size of a medium refrigerator. It was just another sofa shaker and truly a waste of time and money. I swapped it for some large toroidal power transformers and some vintage HiFi gear. Glad to see the back of it.

 

[Bear123]

I'm surprised to see/hear so much old fashioned 2 channel mythology on this site. After having experienced how good a system sounds with properly integrated subs that absolutely cannot be localized(outside of sighted bias, etc), and the drastic improvement in sound quality that having a +/- 1 dB response down to 10 Hz provides, rather than the huge peaks and nulls from woofers that are poorly placed for good low frequency response(mains), I would never want a system that relied only on a L/R speaker. I've measured my mains and I've seen boatloads of measurements done by others. I have yet to see a really good frequency response from a 2 channel setup, and I don't think a poor frequency response is high fidelity. Some folks are ok with that, and its totally cool, to each their own. But I would never spend the money I've spent(not much compared to many) only to end up with the low fidelity of a 2.0 system.

 

[Bear123]

Any JBL M2 owners feel the need for subs?

They mostly seem to be a band-aid in applications using inherently limited( due to design, environment limitations, fashion, WAF or other reasons) smaller main loudspeakers. That's OK, but not a be-all.

Floyd Toole uses multiple subs with his Salon 2's. It doesn't matter how loud or how low even the biggest and most expensive tower speakers can play, in room response will be a wreck. To overcome the train wreck response at low frequencies, it requires multiple well placed subs.

 

[Wombat]

Salon 2s, $22,000(-3dB @ 23Hz) and you need subs? Then buy -3dB@ 45Hz mains(much cheaper) and subs because if one lets the Salon 2s run low with subs their room reactions will still be there.

 

[Bear123]

Salon 2s, $22,000(-3dB @ 23Hz) and you need subs? Then buy -3dB@ 45Hz mains(much cheaper) and subs because if one lets the Salon 2s run low with subs their room reactions will still be there. View attachment 48484

If the goal is optimal sound quality, yes, you need subs. Despite their low end capability, yes, cross at 80 Hz to subs. Properly placed woofers should be handling the low end, which is not where the speakers are placed for proper imaging and soundstage.

 

[restorer-john]

I'm surprised to see/hear so much old fashioned 2 channel mythology on this site.

Not mythology, sunshine.

If the goal is optimal sound quality, yes, you need subs. Despite their low end capability, yes, cross at 80 Hz to subs. Properly placed woofers should be handling the low end

Perhaps if you'd experienced actual woofers as opposed to midranges masquerading as woofers, you'd get it. As for the so-called sub-woofers sold these days, it's a joke. Most barely qualify as a mid-woofer, letalone an actual woofer. Strap on a cheap-ass class D amplifier to get some excursion and all of a sudden you are playing with the big boys? I think not.

What 12"-15" (bass driver) full range quality speakers have you owned?

Properly placed woofers are in the same cabinet as the midrange and the treble units. i.e A full range speaker. Look them up. We all had them. Some of the smart guys still do.

Floyd Toole uses multiple subs with his Salon 2's.

And so what? I use multiple amplifiers with my speakers. Oh, and multiple CD players because I like the variety. And a room full of speakers because I can. Maybe you should do what I do too. Yes, that's a great idea! You can quote me on it.

 

[Bear123]

Not mythology, sunshine.



Perhaps if you'd experienced actual woofers as opposed to midranges masquerading as woofers, you'd get it. As for the so-called sub-woofers sold these days, it's a joke. Most barely qualify as a mid-woofer, letalone an actual woofer. Strap on a cheap-ass class D amplifier to get some excursion and all of a sudden you are playing with the big boys? I think not.

What 12"-15" (bass driver) full range quality speakers have you owned?

Properly placed woofers are in the same cabinet as the midrange and the treble units. i.e A full range speaker. Look them up. We all had them. Some of the smart guys still do.



And so what? I use multiple amplifiers with my speakers. Oh, and multiple CD players because I like the variety. And a room full of speakers because I can. Maybe you should do what I do too. Yes, that's a great idea! You can quote me on it.

I haven't owned any speakers with large bass drivers. Your statement that the proper placement for woofers is in the same cabinet as the midrange and treble just sounds like an opinion. There is a lot of well established science that disagrees with this opinion. It sounds like this is just more what you are used to , and not what is optimal. If this is what you prefer, that is certainly 100% ok, but just because it is your preference doesn't mean it is optimal does it?

If you could point me to some objective data proving that full range speakers without subs provides superior sound quality over properly positioned and integrated, quality subs, paired with well designed speakers, I would be interested in seeing it. All the data I have seen points to multiple subs providing optimal sound quality. Just basing this on what I have seen, what I have read, from the foremost experts in the audio field such as Floyd Toole and Earl Geddes, along with my own personal experience with measuring speakers with and without subs in my room. And of course, the final arbiter, subjective sound quality. I have found that a pair of well placed an integrated quality subwoofers with a nice smooth response sounds much better than a pair of speakers without subs. Evidence(science) supports this subjective impression.

I don't claim to be anywhere near an expert in acoustics and I'm open to changing my mind, but it will be from objective facts, rather than just what people are used to.

My comment about Floyd Toole using multiple subs with his Salon 2's was in regards to this:

"Any JBL M2 owners feel the need for subs?

They mostly seem to be a band-aid in applications using inherently limited( due to design, environment limitations, fashion, WAF or other reasons) smaller main loudspeakers. That's OK, but not a be-all."

In others words, subs aren't used as a band-aid, but rather because it is optimal, even with full range and exceptionally capable speakers.

 

[digicidal]

And so what? I use multiple amplifiers with my speakers. Oh, and multiple CD players because I like the variety. And a room full of speakers because I can. Maybe you should do what I do too. Yes, that's a great idea! You can quote me on it.

OK, quoted... and I do the same. Admittedly I also use subs, but that's because of space consideration rather than perception of superior sound. I simply don't have room for something with the footprint of a full-range with 15" drivers currently. If that changes, then some M2's or if I decide that's too pricey at the time - maybe just some Tekton Moab's - as I'm still curious how that tweeter array actually sounds.

I would, however, argue that subs are quite useful in concert with full range speakers - depending on the room itself. Since it's possible (even likely in many setups) for there to be a null in the bass at the listening position once the main channels are appropriately positioned... a sub in a remote location (or similar position but phase-inverted) can do wonders in resolving that without requiring movement of the L-R channels.

 

[thewas]

Exactly, to avoid bass nulls at the listener position you need to place the woofers usually either directly at the (front) wall which is bad though for imaging and precision for mids and highs or very far away from all walls, which is not feasible in many living spaces. With subwoofers you can get rid of that problem and especially with more subwoofers you can reduce of the variation of bass in the room which is important if you listen with more other people at the same time. Subwoofers unfortunately still have often a bad image as most are not crossed and embedded well into the systems which isn't actually also very easy to do but if done well a really good option.

 

[tomtoo]

If i look at the Geddes design. I see 12" and 15" woofers in the main. Adding sub's there is shure fun. But this are not 5" inch woovers in the main and than adding subs for some bass. Geddes design can deliver in the mains.