Emergency Preparedness - What Are You Doing? (If Anything)

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

It says “Men who own guns are 8x mire likely to die of gun suicides…”
It is like saying dogs that do not have a rabies vaccine, are 100x more likely to die of rabies than vaccinated dogs.

@Holmz - Frothing at the mouth.

The science says that “pwepers” seem 3x more likely to die of high blood pressure and anxiety attacks than “normal” people.

THe article includes more than just that obviously misleading data. It also indicates that easy access to guns increases the likelihood of suicide in a general sense. In other words, if someone is feeling suicidal and there happens to be a gun nearby, the likelihood of them going through with the act (successfully) is much higher than if there isn't a gun nearby.

"The researchers found that people who owned handguns had rates of suicide that were nearly four times higher than people living in the same neighborhood who did not own handguns. The elevated risk was driven by higher rates of suicide by firearm. Handgun owners did not have higher rates of suicide by other methods or higher rates of death generally."

 

[Holmz]

THe article includes more than just that obviously misleading data.

Ok - I suspect that it is histrionic.
But I’m too lazy to read it, and I don’t care about it enough to read it.

It also indicates that easy access to guns increases the likelihood of suicide in a general sense. In other words, if someone is feeling suicidal and there happens to be a gun nearby, the likelyhood of them going through with the act (successfully) is much higher than if there isn't a gun nearby.

OK - It is like saying that people with a drivers licence and more likely to be in a motor vehicle accident.

"The researchers found that people who owned handguns had rates of suicide that were nearly four times higher than people living in the same neighborhood who did not own handguns. The elevated risk was driven by higher rates of suicide by firearm. Handgun owners did not have higher rates of suicide by other methods or higher rates of death generally."

And we care about that why?

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Ok - I suspect that it is histrionic.
But I’m too lazy to read it, and I don’t care about it enough to read it.

Fantastic.

OK - It is like saying that people with a drivers licence and more likely to be in a motor vehicle accident.

No, it isn't.

And we care about that why?

Uh, because it's the point being made?

 

[Holmz]

Fantastic.



No, it isn't.



Uh, because it's the point being made?

The thread started out about preppers, and diverged into guns so one can kill their fellow man before they kill them… and then from a breakdown of society into the breakdown of one’s will live live.
It is worthy of a Hemmingway award for writing.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

The thread started out about preppers, and diverged into guns so one can kill their fellow man before they kill them… and then from a breakdown of society into the breakdown of one’s will live live.
It is worthy of a Hemmingway award for writing.

I definitely agree that things have gone off the rails, but that doesn't change the relevance of the point being made relative to the specific discussion being had right now.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

It says “Men who own guns are 8x mire likely to die of gun suicides…”
It is like saying dogs that do not have a rabies vaccine, are 100x more likely to die of rabies than vaccinated dogs.

@Holmz - Frothing at the mouth.

The science says that “pwepers” seem 3x more likely to die of high blood pressure and anxiety attacks than “normal” people.

I honestly don’t understand your point.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

It is worthy of a Hemmingway award for writing.

How did he die, by the way …

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I honestly don’t understand your point.

his point is that the information in the article is "prevalence of guns = more suicide by guns", which...duh right? But in fact the information in the article is that "prevalence of guns = more suicide, full stop." Which is of course more meaningful information.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

his point is that the information in the article is "prevalence of guns = more suicide by guns", which...duh right? But in fact the information in the article is that "prevalence of guns = more suicide, full stop." Which is of course more meaningful information.

So we are in agreement that he’s incorrectly interpreted the article, yes?

 

[Sal1950]

If your going to do it, a gun is the quickest, most painless way if done correctly..
Pills are OK,, if you don't awake drowning in your own vomit which happens often.
I've had 2 friends, both gun owners, hang themselves. I will never comprehend why they chose this?
They must have had an inner hatred of themselves to want to go out like that ???

 

[EJ3]

not what the science says

Handgun ownership associated with much higher suicide risk

Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don't own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don't.

med.stanford.edu

That is more of a mental health issue.

I have someone in my family that was well of, did not ever NEED to work, but did work at a hospital.
He seemed more or less normal. But one day he took some LSD & jumped of a 180 ft. high bridge into the water below. He survived that. He said: "I thought that I was Superman".
About 20 years later, he again jumped from the same bridge but this time at a lower level where their was still land & trains going through. He landed on a box car. He did not survive, there was no suicide note and their were no drugs in his system.
If you get mental health (which he certainly had access to and certainly could afford, no matter the cost) maybe you won't do it. But if that is what you want to do, you will do it and will do it with whatever is on hand. Obviously, legally he could not own a gun, So he found another way.
I also had a girlfriend that did so (she was a nurse) by taking a bunch of medicines. But I figured out that something was wrong when i was on the phone with her. went over there, got into the house, carried her out & drove to the hospital & got them to pump her stomach out. She survived. And through friends like me (and a few others) talked about her issues that we all helped her through, as well as convincing her to get some psychiatric help) & she is still around 40 years later.

As to the ones that succeed:
As they only harmed themselves & they cannot be punished for doing it & come out of that punishment to do it again.

At that point, just as with my cousin that successfully committed suicide, I personally, give a damn how the did it.
Gun or no gun, if that is what they want to do, they will. And no one on this earth can stop them even if they are in jail.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

If your going to do it, a gun is the quickest, most painless way if done correctly..
Pills are OK,, if you don't awake drowning in your own vomit which happens often.
I've had 2 friends, both gun owners, hang themselves. I will never comprehend why they chose this?
They must have had an inner hatred of themselves to want to go out like that ???

That’s terribly sad @Sal1950 , my condolences.

 

[EJ3]

How did he die, by the way …

It was a family tradition.
There were five confirmed suicides in the family of the famous writer and Nobel Prize winner Ernest Hemingway.
Some speculated that number is treated and claim that at least seven members of the Hemingway family killed themselves. Genetics is a possible hypothesis that could explain why so many Hamingways took their own lives.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Gun or no gun, if that is what they want to do, they will

The evidence suggests that suicide attempts are sometimes (often?) impulsive. Removing the easy means of doing it (by lowering gun ownership, putting barriers on bridges, replumbing an entire country’s gas supplies away from coal seam gas - read about that one, it’s remarkable) actually lowers overall suicide rates.
In other words, making it harder to suicide by one method does not mean people will simply find a different method.

 

[Chr1]

Pretty grim discussion. I think what's most concerning when talking about people who are suicidal and have guns is the possibility of them wanting to go out in a blaze of glory via "death by cop" or whatever. Seems to be that a lot of the mass shooters are depressed teenagers or otherwise mentally unstable individuals who are beyond caring. They often want to take out their anger on society and joe public.
Obviously they should not be able to access guns, but apparently it's not that difficult most of the time.
Slightly tangential, but I reckon social media is making this mental health stuff worse amongst youth.
But hey, I am just old and jaded now. When I was young, I was too busy crashing motorcycles. The cost of fixing them and my lack of money was about the only thing depressing at the time.

 

[EJ3]

Pretty grim discussion. I think what's most concerning when talking about people who are suicidal and have guns is the possibility of them wanting to go out in a blaze of glory via "death by cop" or whatever. Seems to be that a lot of the mass shooters are depressed teenagers or otherwise mentally unstable individuals who are beyond caring. They often want to take out their anger on society and joe public.
Obviously they should not be able to access guns, but apparently it's not that difficult most of the time.
Slightly tangential, but I reckon social media is making this mental health stuff worse amongst youth.
But hey, I am just old and jaded.

There are many easy access ways, suicide by cop with a BB gun, a display un-sharpened sword, crashing their car, jumping of something, taking meds, slicing their wrist, etc.
I do not understand why suicide is illegal to begin with. That is nonsensical.
How does one enforce punishment against those that do it?
It's also the opposite of prepping for survival, the OP's thread point.

 

[Holmz]

How did he die, by the way …

And he wrote, “All true stories end in death.”

 

[Holmz]

his point is that the information in the article is "prevalence of guns = more suicide by guns", which...duh right? But in fact the information in the article is that "prevalence of guns = more suicide, full stop." Which is of course more meaningful information.

I think it is called a circular argument.

 

[Sal1950]

The evidence suggests that suicide attempts are sometimes (often?) impulsive. Removing the easy means of doing it (by lowering gun ownership,

And impossible to exert your right to self defense.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I think it is called a circular argument.

no, it isn't a circular argument. It's data. Now, we can certainly try and find explanations for that data beyond either "fake news" or "because, guns." For instance, I suspect it's entirely possible that the cohort of people who feel like they should have a gun around for protection and safety and preparedness in the event that things get crazy could also be a group who are slightly more-inclined to suffer from mental health issues like depression and anxiety and therefore might also be slightly more likely to be suicidal. In other words, it's not that guns cause more suicide...it's that potentially more-suicidal people are slightly more likely to feel like owning a gun would be a good thing. I'd be pretty surprised if the people studying this stuff haven't pursued that angle actually...