Electrical noise from speakers when PC is on, regardless if using soundcard/USB -> unbalanced dac/balanced dac

[solderdude]

Yep. If I unplug one of them, it still comes through the one speaker just the same. Optical isn't as noisy as USB, it has a higher pitch noise while USB is louder noise and lower in pitch.

Seems to be a groundloop between the DAC and amp.
A solution might be a line-audio transformer.
Have you tried another amplifier ?

 

[FiftyTifty]

Seems to be a groundloop between the DAC and amp.
A solution might be a line-audio transformer.
Have you tried another amplifier ?

Amplifier? That's an active speaker, right? Same thing happens with my Edirol MA-15Ds

 

[solderdude]

That's why I asked if you could check using an amplifier (with passive speaker).

Possibly using an audio line transformer will be the easiest solution.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Problem: When computer off, very quiet white noise from speakers. When computer on, nasty electrical noise when idle. When computer doing heavy work (CPU or GPU, probably power draw related), absolutely awful squealing.

This has been a pain for years, and finally remembered to try out using a USB-C cable to the S.M.S.L D6s I bought after it was recommended. Turns out that didn't fix it.

My setup used to be: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro -> Optical -> Splitter -> (1st) 2x Edirol MA-15Ds -> (2nd) S.M.S.L C100 -> (2nd) RCA 2x Yamaha HS7

Now after trying to isolate possible issues, it's actually worse as: USB-C -> S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7
Whereas it doesn't cut through anywhere near as much as: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro -> Optical -> S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7

The C100 was an unbalanced dac, and the D6s is a balanced one. No difference in behaviour from either of those. And when connected to the dac via USB, even just moving the mouse causes the speakers to put out an icky grainy sound. It's absolutely awful.

Unfortunately I don't have many plug sockets, and the place I'm in is from the 80s so the wiring probably won't have independent circuits for either pair of sockets. Got so much gear that I have to use a Belkin 8x power socket splitter. 1 for the main pc, 1 for the monitor, 2 for the speakers, 1 for the fibre modem, 1 for the Roland audio interface, 1 for the router, 1 for the USB port splitter, 1 for the streaming server....

Bloody hell I have a lot of plugs being used. Christ.

What's the way forward here? I read something about ground loop isolators but they go into circuitry babble one comment into the threads, which is way over my head. And folk saying that it's unsafe because electricity (basically).

Why do you use a computer at all? PC do not belong in the audio chain. WiFi and Chromecast with Tidal can eliminate wiring PC and hifi. Phone-Tidal-wireless toChromecast with Optical to DAC/Streamer…

 

[EDMoser]

Why do you use a computer at all? PC do not belong in the audio chain. WiFi and Chromecast with Tidal can eliminate wiring PC and hifi. Phone-Tidal-wireless toChromecast with Optical to DAC/Streamer…

This is simply not true. I use different laptops as my source and to do DSP room correction - zero noise issues.

sounds to me like the OPs PC is injecting noise into the soundcard. I would try to defeat the ground on the PC or change the power supply in the PC. I have had a cheapish power supply cause noise issues in a tower PC before.

 

[FiftyTifty]

Why do you use a computer at all? PC do not belong in the audio chain. WiFi and Chromecast with Tidal can eliminate wiring PC and hifi. Phone-Tidal-wireless toChromecast with Optical to DAC/Streamer…

...Because I like to listen to music, watch videos, and play games on my pc?

 

[FiftyTifty]

That's why I asked if you could check using an amplifier (with passive speaker).

Possibly using an audio line transformer will be the easiest solution.

Ah I see what you mean. I did have something like that years ago. Had two passive speakers instead of these Yamahas, and had an amp to power them. Had the issue back then as well.

This is simply not true. I use different laptops as my source and to do DSP room correction - zero noise issues.

sounds to me like the OPs PC is injecting noise into the soundcard. I would try to defeat the ground on the PC or change the power supply in the PC. I have had a cheapish power supply cause noise issues in a tower PC before.

I've tried a few different power supplies over the years. A 450W Cooler Master Bronze, A 550W Cooler Master white, a Seasonic 620W Bronze, and now a Corsair 750W Gold. Made no difference to the interference. I suspect my Vega 56 is just heinous.

I'd like to give the isolator stuff a try first, see if that can fix it. Any recommendations on which one to get?

Edit: Just had an idea for testing. I have always been using that Creative sound card since I got it back in 2011, so I tried using my motherboard's optical out instead. The interference is louder from that than on the sound card, but quieter than from the motherboard's USB-C.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Now after trying to isolate possible issues, it's actually worse as: USB-C -> S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7
Whereas it doesn't cut through anywhere near as much as: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro -> Optical -> S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7

If memory serves the HS7s suffer from Pin 1 Problem troubles. Still, that seems a bit extreme. I can't think of how balanced could be worse than unbalanced when neither are isolated. I mean, I can, but something would have to be really screwed up in the setup.

I would turn down the speaker input level to a sensible degree, make sure everything from the PC to the speakers is plugged into the same power strip and perhaps try another IEC power cable on the DAC (it sure behaves like a faulty ground connection). Also, all bets are off if your wall outlet is not actually grounded. I take it you have double-checked that your XLR cables are wired correctly?

If push comes to shove there's still the trusty Behringer HD400 with the requisite cabling.

Edit: Just had an idea for testing. I have always been using that Creative sound card since I got it back in 2011, so I tried using my motherboard's optical out instead. The interference is louder from that than on the sound card, but quieter than from the motherboard's USB-C.

I would chalk that one up to differences in digital level (driver / software settings?). With the same exact data going out, there should be no difference in performance between the two Toslink outputs.

 

[FiftyTifty]

If memory serves the HS7s suffer from Pin 1 Problem troubles. Still, that seems a bit extreme. I can't think of how balanced could be worse than unbalanced when neither are isolated. I mean, I can, but something would have to be really screwed up in the setup.

I would turn down the speaker input level to a sensible degree, make sure everything from the PC to the speakers is plugged into the same power strip and perhaps try another IEC power cable on the DAC (it sure behaves like a faulty ground connection). Also, all bets are off if your wall outlet is not actually grounded. I take it you have double-checked that your XLR cables are wired correctly?

If push comes to shove there's still the trusty Behringer HD400 with the requisite cabling.

I would chalk that one up to differences in digital level (driver / software settings?). With the same exact data going out, there should be no difference in performance between the two Toslink outputs.

Yeah the XLR cables are fine. Had the same experience with using another set of quality cables that were RCA to XLR. Let me get the specific brands...

Heck looking through my email history is a trip. So back when I used just the Edirols with a Schiit Modi 2 Uber, I tried a cheapo RCA ground loop isolator that didn't do anything except degrade the sound quality: https://www.amazon.co.uk/AV-Link-Ground-Loop-Isolator/dp/B000NVWB9O

I then got some pretty expensive RCA -> XLR cables that had good reviews to see if it was a crappy cable issue: https://electromarket.co.uk/pd-connex-2x-xlr-male-2x-rca-male-3m-cable-pair

No change, issue still there just like the cheap cables I had lying around.

Then read about balanced, and got these Monoprice cables to straight from XLR -> XLR with the new fancy dac: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002PAOMSY/

My thinking about the optical noise is also the components used (Realtek integrated vs dedicated Creative PCIE soundcard with metal shield). Having a bit of physical distance away from the motherboard lanes I guess?

There is a good chance that it's shoddy UK electric wiring. Lived in a proper old house that was 180 years old growing up, had the issue there (god knows how archaic and crusty the wiring is). Moved to a new build council flat made by absolute bottom of the barrel builders, had the issue there. And now in an 80's council house, still have the issue here.

I'll give the Behringer HD400 a shot, but err, my HS7's have XLR inputs. What's the setup here? PC -> DAC -> HD400 Isolator -> Speakers? Any known quality cables to go from 6.3mm to XLR? Might as well make sure I'm using proper cables when going between all the gear.

 

[GreeneDeux]

Do you still get noise with the speakers and everything powered on, but with the speaker input disconnected? If yes, I don't think I can help any, but if not, my extremely wacky idea is to try changing the slot the sound card is installed in. Maybe several different slots. Since balanced cables can't get rid of it it stands to reason it's probably coming in on the actual signal lines, not the ground, and if using optical-out from the sound card only reduces the noise... my guess is the sound card DSP itself is being affected by electrical noise from inside your PC in some way. PCI-E slots are grouped together on shared controllers so perhaps moving the sound card to a different controller from your graphics card could help... if that doesn't do it, you might try TOSLINK-out from a simple USB-to-TOSLINK dongle, as was suggested to me in the event of noise.

All bets from me are off if there's still noise with the speaker signal-in unplugged, though.

Edit - this might be worth trying even if you still get noise with the speaker signal-in unplugged. I'm not an electrical engineer.

 

[Moonbase]

I read though the various posts. I have had issues like this myself. In my case it was a usb charger injecting noise into the power supply.

The sound card within the pc seams to be the most likely issue, being to close to the gpu/cpu. If you can move it further away that may help. Did you say you had tried a ground loop isolator? That seams the most common solution I have read about. Even relatively cheap ones work.

 

[TurtlePaul]

A lot of people are pointing to potential electrical issues in the DAC and PC. However, there is a pretty good chance that it is a software issue. Check out your PCs DPC Latency. Very high DPC latency leads the audio buffers to run out of data to send to the DAC and play static.

 

[FiftyTifty]

Do you still get noise with the speakers and everything powered on, but with the speaker input disconnected? If yes, I don't think I can help any, but if not, my extremely wacky idea is to try changing the slot the sound card is installed in. Maybe several different slots. Since balanced cables can't get rid of it it stands to reason it's probably coming in on the actual signal lines, not the ground, and if using optical-out from the sound card only reduces the noise... my guess is the sound card DSP itself is being affected by electrical noise from inside your PC in some way. PCI-E slots are grouped together on shared controllers so perhaps moving the sound card to a different controller from your graphics card could help... if that doesn't do it, you might try TOSLINK-out from a simple USB-to-TOSLINK dongle, as was suggested to me in the event of noise.

All bets from me are off if there's still noise with the speaker signal-in unplugged, though.

Edit - this might be worth trying even if you still get noise with the speaker signal-in unplugged. I'm not an electrical engineer.

Good question. There is no noise when I unplug the XLR cables. Unfortunately I don't have anywhere else to put the sound card as my Vega 56 is massive. I could try getting a pcie x1 riser though if that could help.

Which USB -> TOS adapter did you use? There's always a slew of cheapo AliExpress resellers, and overpriced brand name things for these.

I read though the various posts. I have had issues like this myself. In my case it was a usb charger injecting noise into the power supply.

The sound card within the pc seams to be the most likely issue, being to close to the gpu/cpu. If you can move it further away that may help. Did you say you had tried a ground loop isolator? That seams the most common solution I have read about. Even relatively cheap ones work.

I'll see if I can use a riser for the sound card or GPU, see if I can move things about. Don't think I'll have much luck though, there's not much space in the case because of the huge cooler on the GPU.

I did try a really cheap and nasty RCA ground loop isolator, which IIRC made a difference at first but then it came back. I've got that Behringer HD400 on the way though, and I got a bunch of balanced Hosa cables to do all the connections.

A lot of people are pointing to potential electrical issues in the DAC and PC. However, there is a pretty good chance that it is a software issue. Check out your PCs DPC Latency. Very high DPC latency leads the audio buffers to run out of data to send to the DAC and play static.

Good shout. The DPC Latency is actually really low, so the issue doesn't lie there unfortunately.

 

[FiftyTifty]

Major progress! Got the Behringer HD400, hooked it up to my DAC with two Hosa female XLR -> male TRS, and then two Hosa male TRS -> male TRS cables. This greatly reduced the high pitch electrical sounds from my sound card. They can still be heard with your ears right up against the speakers, but it doesn't get worse with heavy CPU or GPU workloads any more.

There is still some low pitch fuzzy noise as well, but the HD400 made it hard to hear just sitting at my desk. Have to proper focus to hear it now even when playing Bannerlord.

Thanks for the help everyone! Next thing I'll test when I have time and money is using those shielded risers on the GPU and sound card. See if that makes any difference.

 

[GreeneDeux]

Which USB -> TOS adapter did you use? There's always a slew of cheapo AliExpress resellers, and overpriced brand name things for these.

None - I haven't had any ground loop issues (yet). According to the fella who advised me, antcollinet, they can be had on Amazon and look like the attached pic. I'd guess you'll find them with a few different brands on them and all coming out of the same factory. Not expensive.

I suppose in theory they should all be sonically transparent since all it's doing (or all it should be doing, at least) is converting the raw digital data coming from your CPU into an optical signal.