Electrical noise from speakers when PC is on, regardless if using soundcard/USB -> unbalanced dac/balanced dac

[FiftyTifty]

Problem: When computer off, very quiet white noise from speakers. When computer on, nasty electrical noise when idle. When computer doing heavy work (CPU or GPU, probably power draw related), absolutely awful squealing.

This has been a pain for years, and finally remembered to try out using a USB-C cable to the S.M.S.L D6s I bought after it was recommended. Turns out that didn't fix it.

My setup used to be: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro -> Optical -> Splitter -> (1st) 2x Edirol MA-15Ds -> (2nd) S.M.S.L C100 -> (2nd) RCA 2x Yamaha HS7

Now after trying to isolate possible issues, it's actually worse as: USB-C -> S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7
Whereas it doesn't cut through anywhere near as much as: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro -> Optical -> S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7

The C100 was an unbalanced dac, and the D6s is a balanced one. No difference in behaviour from either of those. And when connected to the dac via USB, even just moving the mouse causes the speakers to put out an icky grainy sound. It's absolutely awful.

Unfortunately I don't have many plug sockets, and the place I'm in is from the 80s so the wiring probably won't have independent circuits for either pair of sockets. Got so much gear that I have to use a Belkin 8x power socket splitter. 1 for the main pc, 1 for the monitor, 2 for the speakers, 1 for the fibre modem, 1 for the Roland audio interface, 1 for the router, 1 for the USB port splitter, 1 for the streaming server....

Bloody hell I have a lot of plugs being used. Christ.

What's the way forward here? I read something about ground loop isolators but they go into circuitry babble one comment into the threads, which is way over my head. And folk saying that it's unsafe because electricity (basically).

 

[staticV3]

Since your PC seems to inject noise into the DAC simply by being connected to the same power strip, I would first try:

PC->Toslink->C100 powered by phone charger->HS7

If there's still noise, try:

PC->Toslink->C100 powered by Power bank->HS7

 

[Doodski]

Is the squealing in the audio or coming from a piece of the hardware?

 

[Timcognito]

Unplug everything plug in each speaker one buy one and listen. unplug one speaker and listen, plug it back in and unplug the the other one. once we have eliminated the speakers unconnected, connect one speaker and its source with the usual cable, if there is noise swap to another cable. Usually there are two things not playing nice. You get the idea. try to find the offending device or connector. Sometimes it's a cable on top of another or the power strip may be bunk.

 

[Berwhale]

Do you get the noises out your HS7's even if there is no audio connection to them? (i.e. they are just powered from the same power strip)

 

[Berwhale]

Unfortunately I don't have many plug sockets, and the place I'm in is from the 80s so the wiring probably won't have independent circuits for either pair of sockets. Got so much gear that I have to use a Belkin 8x power socket splitter. 1 for the main pc, 1 for the monitor, 2 for the speakers, 1 for the fibre modem, 1 for the Roland audio interface, 1 for the router, 1 for the USB port splitter, 1 for the streaming server....

I would be tempted to wire up two 4 way splitters off the same plug and get some distance (and resistance) between the PC and the audio gear. You could plug a 4 way extension into your 8 way as a test.

Everything in my study runs off two double outlets on the same ring main. However, my PC and monitor run from a UPS and my comms gear (FTTP ONT, router, switch & WAP) run from a separate UPS. I have a feeling that the UPS help 'isolate' the connected equipment from audio gear, but I no evidence to back this up.

 

[FiftyTifty]

Since your PC seems to inject noise into the DAC simply by being connected to the same power strip, I would first try:

PC->Toslink->C100 powered by phone charger->HS7

If there's still noise, try:

PC->Toslink->C100 powered by Power bank->HS7

My phone is too old, it uses micro USB lmao. I could try and power it off of my laptop, will report back on that.

Is the squealing in the audio or coming from a piece of the hardware?

It's from the speakers. For example, if I fire up Mount & Blade Bannerlord and mute windows, I hear this noisy medium-tone crackling noise. It's like I'm hearing the pc components through my speakers.

Unplug everything plug in each speaker one buy one and listen. unplug one speaker and listen, plug it back in and unplug the the other one. once we have eliminated the speakers unconnected, connect one speaker and its source with the usual cable, if there is noise swap to another cable. Usually there are two things not playing nice. You get the idea. try to find the offending device or connector. Sometimes it's a cable on top of another or the power strip may be bunk.

Oh man I'm gonna hate doing this, all the cables are a nightmare under the desk lmao. With how many cables there are, I'll probably need some way to shield and route them across each other after I've finished testing.

Do you get the noises out your HS7's even if there is no audio connection to them? (i.e. they are just powered from the same power strip)

A very quiet fuzzy noise that I can only hear when I put my face about 12 inches away from the speaker. Even when the PC is under heavy workload. It's when the audio cable is connected that t becomes unbearable.

Speaking of which, now that I fired up Bannerlord after screwing with the D6s' settings, it's louder and more awful than ever before. The interference is crazy.

I would be tempted to wire up two 4 way splitters off the same plug and get some distance (and resistance) between the PC and the audio gear. You could plug a 4 way extension into your 8 way as a test.

Everything in my study runs off two double outlets on the same ring main. However, my PC and monitor run from a UPS and my comms gear (FTTP ONT, router, switch & WAP) run from a separate UPS. I have a feeling that the UPS help 'isolate' the connected equipment from audio gear, but I no evidence to back this up.

I remember UPS being a recommended thing in general, since they clean up all the electrical weirdness with black outs and brown outs. Pricy solution to it though.

 

[staticV3]

My phone is too old, it uses micro USB lmao. I could try and power it off of my laptop, will report back on that.

But you must have a phone charger somewhere with a USB-A port, no?


Then you just need a USB-A to USB-C cable. There should've been one included with your C100.

 

[Dunring]

I solved it on my gaming computer with optical USB Fibbr cable and undercoating the video card to eliminate coil whine completely. It's the way to go.

 

[FiftyTifty]

But you must have a phone charger somewhere with a USB-A port, no?
View attachment 379626

Then you just need a USB-A to USB-C cable. There should've been one included with your C100.
View attachment 379627

Nope, don't have a charger like that. I've only ever used a usb to micro-usb cable for charging it off my pc.

I solved it on my gaming computer with optical USB Fibbr cable and undercoating the video card to eliminate coil whine completely. It's the way to go.

Optical usb from pc to dac? That's interesting. Especially with the video card thing, as it's absolutely related to how hard my GPU is working and not my CPU. Did a test by building one of my Gaea projects which causes momentary freezes on your pc since it's pegging the CPU to 100%. Barely an increase in the noise.

But running Bannerlord, Helldivers, or even Morrowind's main menu with uncapped framerate? On USB the sound is absolutely intolerable, on optical it's noticeable but only in the quieter scenes.

 

[FiftyTifty]

Unplug everything plug in each speaker one buy one and listen. unplug one speaker and listen, plug it back in and unplug the the other one. once we have eliminated the speakers unconnected, connect one speaker and its source with the usual cable, if there is noise swap to another cable. Usually there are two things not playing nice. You get the idea. try to find the offending device or connector. Sometimes it's a cable on top of another or the power strip may be bunk.

This was a nightmare to do lmao. It's now almost 1am and I probably overdid it physically (chronic illness life) by trying to get this tested tonight, but hey.

With some masking tape I had my audio cables run up the wall and across to the dac, the speaker & dac power cables under the desk & to the left from a separate power strip on the other side of the room, and the PC & monitor on their own power strip.

No difference, behaviour is the same. And when I let the cables just sit ontop of the desk, no change there either. Same behaviour; I'm hearing electrical noise from my GPU on optical, or hearing my CPU from USB. The USB one is absurdly loud and annoying, as literally any activity is picked up and played through the speakers.

I'm wondering if this is the coil whine people talk about. My card is an AMD Vega 56, and with Dunning's comment, I think that is the culprit for the noise on optical. No clue why USB is so much worse and picks up other components.

 

[staticV3]

I'm wondering if this is the coil whine people talk about. My card is an AMD Vega 56, and with Dunning's comment, I think that is the culprit for the noise on optical. No clue why USB is so much worse and picks up other components.

Coil whine is physical sound emitted from your card.

What you have is just electrical interference present on both the PC's USB ports and the power strip.

 

[solderdude]

This was a nightmare to do lmao. It's now almost 1am and I probably overdid it physically (chronic illness life) by trying to get this tested tonight, but hey.

With some masking tape I had my audio cables run up the wall and across to the dac, the speaker & dac power cables under the desk & to the left from a separate power strip on the other side of the room, and the PC & monitor on their own power strip.

No difference, behaviour is the same. And when I let the cables just sit ontop of the desk, no change there either. Same behaviour; I'm hearing electrical noise from my GPU on optical, or hearing my CPU from USB. The USB one is absurdly loud and annoying, as literally any activity is picked up and played through the speakers.

I'm wondering if this is the coil whine people talk about. My card is an AMD Vega 56, and with Dunning's comment, I think that is the culprit for the noise on optical. No clue why USB is so much worse and picks up other components.

Just buy an USB isolator... a real one and the problems are gone.
This is just a groundloop / leakage current and quite common.

 

[solderdude]

This was a nightmare to do lmao. It's now almost 1am and I probably overdid it physically (chronic illness life) by trying to get this tested tonight, but hey.

With some masking tape I had my audio cables run up the wall and across to the dac, the speaker & dac power cables under the desk & to the left from a separate power strip on the other side of the room, and the PC & monitor on their own power strip.

No difference, behaviour is the same. And when I let the cables just sit ontop of the desk, no change there either. Same behaviour; I'm hearing electrical noise from my GPU on optical, or hearing my CPU from USB. The USB one is absurdly loud and annoying, as literally any activity is picked up and played through the speakers.

I'm wondering if this is the coil whine people talk about. My card is an AMD Vega 56, and with Dunning's comment, I think that is the culprit for the noise on optical. No clue why USB is so much worse and picks up other components.

Does it also happen when just using 1 DAC (via optical) to a single amplifier ?

 

[JSmith]

S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7

If none of the already mentioned solutions resolve the issue, you could also try disconnecting the shield pin from the DAC end of the XLR cables.


JSmith

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Problem: When computer off, very quiet white noise from speakers. When computer on, nasty electrical noise when idle. When computer doing heavy work (CPU or GPU, probably power draw related), absolutely awful squealing.

This has been a pain for years, and finally remembered to try out using a USB-C cable to the S.M.S.L D6s I bought after it was recommended. Turns out that didn't fix it.

My setup used to be: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro -> Optical -> Splitter -> (1st) 2x Edirol MA-15Ds -> (2nd) S.M.S.L C100 -> (2nd) RCA 2x Yamaha HS7

Now after trying to isolate possible issues, it's actually worse as: USB-C -> S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7
Whereas it doesn't cut through anywhere near as much as: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro -> Optical -> S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7

The C100 was an unbalanced dac, and the D6s is a balanced one. No difference in behaviour from either of those. And when connected to the dac via USB, even just moving the mouse causes the speakers to put out an icky grainy sound. It's absolutely awful.

Unfortunately I don't have many plug sockets, and the place I'm in is from the 80s so the wiring probably won't have independent circuits for either pair of sockets. Got so much gear that I have to use a Belkin 8x power socket splitter. 1 for the main pc, 1 for the monitor, 2 for the speakers, 1 for the fibre modem, 1 for the Roland audio interface, 1 for the router, 1 for the USB port splitter, 1 for the streaming server....

Bloody hell I have a lot of plugs being used. Christ.

What's the way forward here? I read something about ground loop isolators but they go into circuitry babble one comment into the threads, which is way over my head. And folk saying that it's unsafe because electricity (basically).

These are usually the symptoms generated by an earth loop including your PC. Classic analogue-only earth loops create hums and low frequency buzzes. With computers you get buzzes and whines which get worse with load and GPU activity. If you search ASR you will find this is a common malaise.

Fixing earth loops is a pain, and tends to be slightly different for every setup. Some simple approaches are:
1. do everything balanced, no single-ended audio
2. use optical wherever possible
3. use ethernet (NOT shielded ethernet cables) or WiFi as segmentation tools.
4. Sometimes you can get away with everything on one wall socket only, but with modern desk set-ups this can be a challenge!

 

[staticV3]

Just buy an USB isolator... a real one and the problems are gone.
This is just a groundloop / leakage current and quite common.

The PC seems to inject noise into the DAC simply by being connected to the same power strip, so an isolated data connection between PC and DAC is not enough:

Whereas it doesn't cut through anywhere near as much as: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro -> Optical -> S.M.S.L D6s -> XLR 2x Yamaha HS7

"doesn't cut through near as much" - but still cuts through.

 

[FiftyTifty]

Just buy an USB isolator... a real one and the problems are gone.
This is just a groundloop / leakage current and quite common.

Any recommendations? After googling a bit, some say a 30 quid usb-stick looking thing does the trick, others these 150 pounders that look like industrial equipment.

Does it also happen when just using 1 DAC (via optical) to a single amplifier ?

Yep. If I unplug one of them, it still comes through the one speaker just the same. Optical isn't as noisy as USB, it has a higher pitch noise while USB is louder noise and lower in pitch.

If none of the already mentioned solutions resolve the issue, you could also try disconnecting the shield pin from the DAC end of the XLR cables.


JSmith

Unfortunately I couldn't find any info on doing that, just other forum threads mentioning to do it. How do you disconnect the pin in the cable?

 

[FiftyTifty]

These are usually the symptoms generated by an earth loop including your PC. Classic analogue-only earth loops create hums and low frequency buzzes. With computers you get buzzes and whines which get worse with load and GPU activity. If you search ASR you will find this is a common malaise.

Fixing earth loops is a pain, and tends to be slightly different for every setup. Some simple approaches are:
1. do everything balanced, no single-ended audio
2. use optical wherever possible
3. use ethernet (NOT shielded ethernet cables) or WiFi as segmentation tools.
4. Sometimes you can get away with everything on one wall socket only, but with modern desk set-ups this can be a challenge!

1. Already got balanced dac and balanced speakers
2. Already using optical
3. The what now? This sounds interesting, any details?
4. Noise happens on the same power strip, just a bit quieter. Still audible, same noise sound, same behaviour.

Thanks for the help so far everyone, I appreciate it.

 

[JSmith]

Unfortunately I couldn't find any info on doing that, just other forum threads mentioning to do it. How do you disconnect the pin in the cable?

Best to try all the other options mentioned first before going down this path... more of a last ditch solution. One has to remove the housing and disconnect the wire from pin 1. Keep in mind this is also disconnecting ground.


JSmith