Electric guitar audio science?

[Blake Klondike]

The parallels between music gear and audiophile gear are really striking-- there is a guitar store in town here whose instruments start at about $3500 and go up to $100k+. 95% of their customers are retired tech and finance guys who don't have to think twice about spending $35,000 for a guitar. And it is mostly the same market as the $35,000 stereo folks. That may well be a week's pay for some of these guys. so why not?

 

[Wombat]

The parallels between music gear and audiophile gear are really striking-- there is a guitar store in town here whose instruments start at about $3500 and go up to $100k+. 95% of their customers are retired tech and finance guys who don't have to think twice about spending $35,000 for a guitar. And it is mostly the same market as the $35,000 stereo folks. That may well be a week's pay for some of these guys. so why not?

Expensive guitars tend to appreciate in value. Top-end HiFi gear tends not to - there are a few exceptions, of course

 

[Blake Klondike]

Expensive guitars tend to appreciate in value. Top-end HiFi gear tends not to - there are a few exceptions, of course

Vintage expensive guitars increase in value-- I was thinking about old tube MacIntosh gear as a parallel. Fender, Martin, Gibson, etc. tend to increase about ten percent per year. Most other stuff just becomes "used" and loses a third of its value.

 

[LightninBoy]

I actually tried to explain to someone on reddit how sighted bias could potentially be a factor in why they feel that a more expensive guitar "feels" and "sounds" better than a similar cheaper guitar (i.e. Fender vs. Squire). I reality there are so many factors that could account for the difference. One guitar actually being "better" (which is a somewhat subjective evaluation) than the other is one of many that could result in a perceivable difference.

You probably are already aware of this, but this guitar channel is famous for its blindfold tests. Here's a good one one comparing various Strat style guitars ...

 

[Wombat]

Vintage expensive guitars increase in value-- I was thinking about old tube MacIntosh gear as a parallel. Fender, Martin, Gibson, etc. tend to increase about ten percent per year. Most other stuff just becomes "used" and loses a third of its value.

I noticed that a well-kept secret is out. Used high-end Yamaha Pacifica prices have soared recently.

 

[Theo]

Some guitars can be considered as art, especially acoustic guitars... Hence price. They are usually used as display on the wall of rich traders and sorts. Works for violins (and all sorts of instruments, of course) too. Aren't Stradivarii kind of like Hi-End stereo, overpriced?
The main topic remains though the guy who plays the instrument. I heard fabulous musicians play on very average guitars and make damn real good music! Jazz artists usually can't afford to own expensive instruments!

 

[Wombat]

Some guitars can be considered as art, especially acoustic guitars... Hence price. They are usually used as display on the wall of rich traders and sorts. Works for violins (and all sorts of instruments, of course) too. Aren't Stradivarii kind of like Hi-End stereo, overpriced?
The main topic remains though the guy who plays the instrument. I heard fabulous musicians play on very average guitars and make damn real good music! Jazz artists usually can't afford to own expensive instruments!

I remember a DBT of various violins, very old to recent production - the Strads. came out wanting. No, sadly, I can't find the paper.

 

[Blake Klondike]

I noticed that a well-kept secret is out. Used high-end Yamaha Pacifica prices have soared recently.

Those are great guitars! I know several teachers who recommend them to all their students.

 

[jsrtheta]

"...All you'd have to do is have a bolt-on neck guitar."

Why would it have to be a bolt-on neck?

 

[Zerimas]

Why would it have to be a bolt-on neck?

Because you can remove it and place it on another body. It allows to control for more factors by keeping as much of the guitar the same between test conditions.

 

[jsrtheta]

Because you can remove it and place it on another body. It allows to control for more factors by keeping as much of the guitar the same between test conditions.

You have far more faith than I do that swapping a bolt-on neck between bodies will affect little.

You would also eliminate the best Gibsons from any comparison, which is frankly silly.

 

[Zerimas]

You have far more faith than I do that swapping a bolt-on neck between bodies will affect little.

You would also eliminate the best Gibsons from any comparison, which is frankly silly.

Well the goal is to simply verify the extent to which wood has an effect on the output of an electric guitar. Even if they both had the same pickups a comparison between say a Stratocaster and Les Paul simply has too many variables which could affect the outcome—construction, materials, dimensions, hardware, et cetera.

 

[jsrtheta]

Well the goal is to simply verify the extent to which wood has an effect on the output of an electric guitar. Even if they both had the same pickups a comparison between say a Stratocaster and Les Paul simply has too many variables which could affect the outcome—construction, materials, dimensions, hardware, et cetera.

So elimination of the premier U.S. guitar maker is somehow helping? If you're trying to gauge the effect of different woods, comparing Strats to Strats is not going to take you very far.

 

[ajawamnet]

Awww ... it's all in the amp - you need to get one of these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumble_Amplifiers
"In 2012, Vintage Guitar magazine described the Dumble Overdrive Special as the most valuable in the product line, with used amplifiers fetching between $70,000 and $150,000.[2] Other examples have sold for more.[3] "

Yea... not really. I've modded Fenders and Mesa's... I ain't gettin' no $70K-150K.

I suck at business....

 

[Zerimas]

So elimination of the premier U.S. guitar maker is somehow helping? If you're trying to gauge the effect of different woods, comparing Strats to Strats is not going to take you very far.

I feel like you don't understand what I am proposing. You take a bolt-on neck type guitar, play it, record the output. Then you swap the body for one of a different type of wood and play it and take some measurements again.

It doesn't have anything to with any guitar manufacturer whatsoever. The point is to perform a test where you only change one variable (the body wood of the guitar) and leave all the others the same.

 

[Wombat]

Awww ... it's all in the amp - you need to get one of these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumble_Amplifiers
"In 2012, Vintage Guitar magazine described the Dumble Overdrive Special as the most valuable in the product line, with used amplifiers fetching between $70,000 and $150,000.[2] Other examples have sold for more.[3] "

Yea... not really. I've modded Fenders and Mesa's... I ain't gettin' no $70K-150K.

I suck at business....

Dumble schematics,

 

[ajawamnet]

Dumble schematics,

Thanks for posting that. I use that sch heaven site when people bring stuff over to fix. I have one guy that collects Sunn amps... he was the sound guy at Jaxx and the Birchmere here in D.C. for years. He has more Sunn gear than I've ever seen...

I recall stuff like the JFET topology Dumble uses being around way back in the 1950's when Shockley and Darcy were doing their thing...

 

[anmpr1]

OK...here's the question. At what point do you even have the guitar you started out with? I bought an Epiphone LP Standard. I changed pots, switches, and added Seymour Duncan pickups. So, is it still a Epi LP Standard? I mean, if I change out the tuners, nut, and bridge, what the hell is going to be left of it, but the body? LOL

PS: FWIW, the bridge, nut and tuners seem to be first rate. Not going to change them. The electronics, started to go south after a year. But you kind of expect that on an inexpensive guitar. Switching out the pickups is what really changed the sound.

 

[Killingbeans]

Riiiise from your grave!

 

[SIY]

OK...here's the question. At what point do you even have the guitar you started out with?

Ship of Theseus.