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Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 Review (bookshelf speaker)

ctrl

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When I tried to record it, I realized it is not the breathing that is causing the problem but the letter "H" when she utters "he goes away." The H picks up a metallic overtone. I have enclosed a crappy recording on my Samsung phone. I can hear it there but it is far more subtle than what I hear in person.

@amirm, have listened to your recording many times and can't find anything noticeable when Eva sings "he".

The only thing that is noticeable is when Eva sings "goes" that at this point the recording sounds strange. At this point in the song, the sound pressure level at 555Hz is also almost 20dB above the average level.
With the UB52, this is almost exactly the point where 96dB of sound pressure resolves 4% HD2 and 1.5% HD3.
 
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amirm

amirm

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@amirm, have listened to your recording many times and can't find anything noticeable when Eva sings "he".
It is hard to hear it in that recording if you don't know what the read distortion sounds like. I will see if I can set up my recording mic to capture it better.
 

Rock Rabbit

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Can you explain more? I don't know what I'm looking at, or where the problem is.
From THD graph there's evident problems in two resonance peaks starting at 585 Hz 4% next some 620 Hz 3%, these are not visible in FR and there's a small change in impedance, they appear in the port distortion too. Eva Cassidy voice triggered both resonance points to build up 2nd an 3rd harmonics...in the most sensitive frequency range for detecting distortion.
Generally narrow peaks with similar frequency can be associated with cone membrane breakup (metal cone), narrow or high Q is only possible from mechanical resonance. The problem is present in BS U5 model but there the Xover distortion is even bigger and with broader peak...the problem is the coaxial metallic midrange
 
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Sonny1

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What makes you think it is not just a bad sample?

Fair question. I don’t know if a resonance like the one revealed in the testing is a quality or design flaw. The good news is that it’s relatively easy to detect and measure. If the other sample doesn’t show the same defect, it might be a quality issue. Curious to find out.
 

Shazb0t

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Listening to one speaker will certainly allow one to hear many characteristics of a speaker, such as tonal balance. It seems to me that perspective, or presence of the speaker is more easily heard in a stereo performance .
Except that perspective and presence are nonsense words.
 

TheMarshal

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FYI: Andrew Jones is active from time to time in the ELAC Owners group on Facebook. I assume if someone posts the review there, maybe an official answer could be given. ;)
 

JIW

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BTW, this is the actual album:

View attachment 104904

The youtube version I linked to is from another album. While it showed the problem, it was not as severe there so maybe there is a difference in recording (or youtube compression changing it).

This is the one I can find on Tidal.

Without level matching, although according to YouTube they are within 0.1 dB, both on YouTube and on Tidal, it does seem to me to be a bit harsher than the one you posted. The reverb sounds different too me. On the live recording, there seems to be more of it and it sounds resonant on the crescendo at 0:45 or so after 'sunshine'.

Level was such that 0 dBFS was -14 dBV across HD600. Average SPL probably somewhere around 75 dB.
 

Lorenzo74

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Amir, it seems likely to me that this issue is caused by something having come loose in the speaker. Possibly a trim, one of the driver bolts, a cable internally rattling. I'm doubtful this is a design flaw.
Great a expert like you @jackocleebrown is part of ASR community. if I may, what do you think about coaxial mid-tweeter speaker on axis response vs 20-30 degree off axis?
I always see they perfom better out of axis above crossover point.
KEF, ELAC, SEAS (C18EN002)
thanks in advance for your opinion
best
 

SmackDaddies

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Except that perspective and presence are nonsense words.
The term perspective describes the apparent distance between the listener and the music. Perspective is largely a function of the recording (particularly the distance between the performers and the microphones), but is also affected by components in the playback system. Some products push the presentation forward, toward the listener; others sound more distant, or laid-back. The forward product presents the music in front of the loudspeakers; the laid-back product makes the music appear slightly behind the loudspeakers. Put another way, the forward product sounds as though the musicians have taken a few steps toward you; the laid-back product gives the impression that the musicians have taken a few steps back. Robert Harley

An example. JBL 104, a perfectly dreadful speaker, has the most insane stereo imaging in a nearfield presesence. It sounds like the music is in your head - as close to headphones as I have heard. A terribly crappy speaker otherwise
 

thewas

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Almost at the same time I hear the problem, the woofer goes way in and stays there for a second.
That reads like a chaotic behaviour (bifurcation) which has been observed on loudspeakers:

1610235844450.png


https://www.researchgate.net/public...haotic_state_on_an_electrodynamic_loudspeaker

https://www.researchgate.net/public...aotic_behavior_in_an_experimental_loudspeaker
 

Tks

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Is the speaker new or is it done - "burn in"?

Depends. What does the driver OEM recommend for burn-in for the specific SKUs of drivers used on this speaker? I dont want this information from the speaker manufacturer, i would only accept this from the driver developers themselves, with graphs showing the difference as specification results.

Otherwise, burn-in for me lasts a few seconds, or decades depending on what we're actually talking about.

Also, it would be nice to see one example of burn-in being worse than the original performance. There is no way that burn in can be strictly relegated to existing in positive form. With all the slip ups in the world, there must be one instance where burn in was botched and made things worse. Ive been waiting years for someone to show me this, and I've yet to see it.
 

Music1969

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Amir, it seems likely to me that this issue is caused by something having come loose in the speaker. Possibly a trim, one of the driver bolts, a cable internally rattling. I'm doubtful this is a design flaw.

Cool to see a KEF engineer around this forum!
 

sarumbear

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Mark Levinson No 53:

No53-drama.png
@amirm do you remember that strange amp protection issue you had a while ago when testing a speaker? Could it be that the amplifier is causing this due to protection engaging briefly this time? Maybe you can monitor the speaker input terminals to see if there’s an anomaly that tally with the sound you hear?
 
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Rock Rabbit

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I put a blanket over the coaxial driver and I still could hear the problem. I then pulled it further down on top of the woofer and still could hear the problem.

Almost at the same time I hear the problem, the woofer goes way in and stays there for a second. The coaxial driver is also moving fair bit. Not sure if these are helpful hints but this is all I have. :)
The track has DC component at the start of "goes away" !
ECDC.png
Edit: midrange moving too? Better process the track with a 20 Hz hpf, it seems some DC is going with bass line (some effect?)
 
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amirm

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@amirm do you remember that strange amp protection issue you had a while ago when testing a speaker? Could it be that the amplifier is causing this due to protection engaging briefly this time? Maybe you can monitor the speaker input terminals to see if there’s an anomaly that tally with the sound you hear?
I do. Unfortunately as the weather has gotten colder, the problem has gotten worse. So for now, I have stopped using that monoblock and this test and recent other ones have been with the other monoblock.

So no, it is not related to that. Indeed as I reported -- and I have repeated -- I have played the exact track at levels matching or exceeding what this speaker is doing with Revel M105 and there is zero hint of this problem there.
 

sarumbear

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Ridiculous. That’s almost like publishing half a review. Very disappointing, Amir.
What’s the point on insisting? You made your point. It’s rejected. We don’t need to hear your constant whining.
 
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amirm

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sarumbear

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I do. Unfortunately as the weather has gotten colder, the problem has gotten worse. So for now, I have stopped using that monoblock and this test and recent other ones have been with the other monoblock.

So no, it is not related to that. Indeed as I reported -- and I have repeated -- I have played the exact track at levels matching or exceeding what this speaker is doing with Revel M105 and there is zero hint of this problem there.
Thank you for the reply. I was thinking if something in this speakers impedance function that is fooling the amplifiers protection circuit. That’s all.
 
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