Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 Review (bookshelf speaker)

[flipflop]

In the scope of nasty resonances, loudness-contour curves and audibility, how do these compare, what does the science say?

4% THD, strongly dominated by the 2nd harmonic, doesn't explain how Amir heard "a rather loud squeak instead of [a] breath" and how "the artifact actually sounded louder than her voice".
This is an IMD issue.

 

[andreasmaaan]

In the scope of nasty resonances, loudness-contour curves and audibility, how do these compare, what does the science say?

The B&W spike consists almost entirely of audibly-benign 2nd harmonic. Also, IIRC, that B&W had a narrowband dip at the fundamental frequency there, so that 2HD speak, while high relative to the fundamental, will not be as high relative to signal content in the 2kHz range, which will also tend to result in its being better masked with music playback.

Not that I mean to say it's necessarily 100% benign, but rather that it's far less likely to be audible than this ELAC's spike, which is higher in level (especially relative to the harmonic frequencies) and contains significant H3 and H4 components (which in turn implies higher levels of IMD).

EDIT: I should have added, given Amir heard a "squeak" that seemed louder than the singer's voice, I think it's fair to imagine the THD shown in the graph is not the full story but rather a symptom of some other issue (a rattle or air being pushed through a seal that's come loose or etc).

 

[Robbo99999]

Nice EQ notch investigation Amir, it was a strange one!

 

[tktran303]

Amir, it seems likely to me that this issue is caused by something having come loose in the speaker. Possibly a trim, one of the driver bolts, a cable internally rattling. I'm doubtful this is a design flaw.

Hello Jack,

Nice to get your professional opinion on this.

Yes quite possibly, I've had narrow band distortion- turn out to be drivers not fully screwed into the baffle...

 

[tuga]

I should have added, given Amir heard a "squeak" that seemed louder than the singer's voice, I think it's fair to imagine the THD shown in the graph is not the full story but rather a symptom of some other issue (an rattle or air being pushed through a seal that's come loose or etc).

I was thinking about that. Can we find traces of that "squeak" in the measurements that were posted so far?

I see that Jack Oclee-Brown has proposed a potential cause:

Amir, it seems likely to me that this issue is caused by something having come loose in the speaker. Possibly a trim, one of the driver bolts, a cable internally rattling. I'm doubtful this is a design flaw.

Tweeter grill?

 

[hmt]

Would have been helpful to play as sine tone of this frequency and to investigate further.

 

[tuga]

I don't have this recording but I added a high-Q 9dB peak at 600Hz to Fast Car and the colouration doesn't sound like a "squeak".
I would expect that to be at a much higher frequency.

Edit: if I'm not mistaken sibilance is usually at around 4-6kHz.

 

[joentell]

I do not hear the resonance that @amirm has spoken of. I've played the same Eva Cassidy track (same album and version as the one he showed) using Qobuz on the NAD T778, Parasound A52+ amp, DIRAC off on both UB52 bookshelf speakers as well as on the UC52 center channel. I did not hear the squeak that he described after the 55 second mark. I put my ear right up close and played it back numerous times. I may do a close-mic recording if there's a demand for it.

My issue with the Uni-Fi 2.0 is that I didn't find the treble very pleasing, nor did I find it overly pleasing on the Debut Reference. I said this in my video review. I've come to the conclusion that they're using pretty much the same tweeter on both. I haven't spent too much time looking at the Klippel measurements, but is there anything there that might explain why the treble response might sound somewhat harsh?

I've forwarded this post to Andrew Jones so hopefully he'll chime in. He's not really the type to shy away from stuff like this from what I've seen, but who knows. That's up to him.

A lot of people are jumping to conclusions without knowing for sure if the issue is widespread or specific to this one speaker. To me that's the danger of taking these at face value. It's like the thing with the Denon review. It's important to analyze the data to figure out what it's telling us. Science is about continually asking questions surrounding the data given to us via measurements. It's important that we interpret the data correctly (using the scientific approach) if we want to come to the right conclusions.

 

[Ron Texas]

A very interesting review. We have a speaker from a talented designer with a serious flaw which made it to distribution. This is also an unusual situation where the preference score doesn't tell the story. Thank you @amirm speaker reviews are the most interesting because there are so many ways for the manufacturer to get it wrong.

 

[LDKTA]

I heard these in a less than ideal environment and found that they sounded wrong myself... I didn’t hear a squeak but the coloration was clear as day. Great review.

 

[F1308]

Mark Levinson No 53:

Seriously...?

Solid-state, monoblock power amplifier with proprietary "class-I" output stage. Inputs: 1 unbalanced (RCA), 1 balanced (XLR). Outputs: 2 pairs binding posts. Maximum output power (20Hz–20kHz, at <0.1% distortion): 500W into 8 ohms (27dBW); 1000W into 4 ohms (27dBW). Frequency response: 10Hz–20kHz, ±0.1dB. Input impedance: 100k ohms balanced, 50k ohms unbalanced. Voltage gain: 26.8dB. Output impedance: not specified. Input sensitivity: 2.89V input for full output. Signal/noise ratio: 85dB ref. 2.83V RMS (1W at 8 ohms).

I think perhaps it was a present from someone....

 

[Draki]

Is the squeak audible with the port damped?...

 

[Dj7675]

Come on Elac fanboys. Get over it.

Me? I don’t get it. I don’t own any Elac’s. I just hate threads getting littered with complaints on things that don’t matter, and aren’t going to change instead of focussing on the abundance of info that is provided.

 

[BN1]

A very interesting review. We have a speaker from a talented designer with a serious flaw which made it to distribution. This is also an unusual situation where the preference score doesn't tell the story. Thank you @amirm speaker reviews are the most interesting because there are so many ways for the manufacturer to get it wrong.

Yeah, agree. Maybe we'll find that the "flaw" is something that can be accounted for (mf'g error, shipping, etc) and then the discussion can be focused on the rest of the measurements, as it should be. Time will tell. I don't think that ASR should have "abbreviated" the review/investigation however

 

[joentell]

Yeah, agree. Maybe we'll find that the "flaw" is something that can be accounted for (mf'g error, shipping, etc) and then the discussion can be focused on the rest of the measurements, as it should be. Time will tell. I don't think that ASR should have "abbreviated" the review/investigation however

I'm curious to see if both speakers measure the same.

 

[Rock Rabbit]

With EQ fixing even resonance issues this much, it seems the good digital room correction solutions potentially also do some important serious speaker corrections too !

Like Dirac Live, Audiolense, Acourate

@mitchco

The double resonance is seen in THD and not in frequency response, eq notch cut part of the vocal range (around D5) and guitar notes....speaker cone resonance is a big flaw

 

[Rock Rabbit]

4% THD, strongly dominated by the 2nd harmonic, doesn't explain how Amir heard "a rather loud squeak instead of [a] breath" and how "the artifact actually sounded louder than her voice".
This is an IMD issue.

A narrow double resonance peak (cone breakup mode), then you hear artifacts at 2xf and 3xf. At 2xf we have another thd lower peak (another breakup?), with resonances in the female vocal range and guitar notes (d5)...you can hear a disaster

 

[Shazb0t]

It's pretty apparent something is up, likely an issue with the specific speaker. The description of the issue doesn't match the measurements.

 

[Ericglo]

I just read the thread.

I don't have any thing to say specifically regarding the Elacs. What is annoying is another review being littered with criticism of the way Amir reviews the speakers. He clearly states how he does his reviews. If you don't like it then post in the complaint thread not each review thread.

On mono speaker listening, Floyd Toole has spoken about this for years. Nothing new.

 

[Ron Texas]

To be charitable to Andrew Jones I am going to guess there was a manufacturing error and parts were out of spec.