ELAC DF63 Floor standing Speaker Review

[Robbo99999]

Is this hard to play:

I will use the track Michael Ruff - Speaking in Melodies - Wishing Well (well-recorded fusion) as an example, as there are several high-frequency peaks that require a lot of power from the amplifier. First, the voltage, current and power for the entire signal are shown:

View attachment 474794View attachment 474795

J

'Making sense of power requirements, decibels and sensitivity'

Apr 12, 2025

Hi there!

I'm creating this little thread to ask a question for what is probably a very dumb question, but I can't for the life of me figure it out.

Let's say you have speakers rated for 88 dB sensitivity (2.83 V @ 1m).
The speakers' maximum SPL is 112 dB.
Their power rating is 40 to 120 W.

Now, adding 3 dB means doubling the volume. Going (112 - 88) / 3 = 8, so going from 88 dB to 112 dB is multiplying the volume by 2^8, which is 256. Am I correct on that one?

If that's true, then I don't get the numbers in the spec sheet. 1W gives you 88 dB, so to get 112 dB you should need 256W...

• JustAnAudioLover
• Replies: 35
• Forum: General Audio Discussions

If that song requires a lot of amp power even for the higher frequencies, it also places demands on the speakers.

I think that's a good way to quantify it, and thereby indicate tracks that can stress the tweeter. I'm not sure those same tracks would be the ones that would show the error in the speaker Amir reviewed though. That's why I tested the song that Amir used on my own speakers out of curiosity. I might try it on the track you suggest, but it would be Youtube if it's there.

 

[Robbo99999]

If someone want to play "Fading Sun" in a way that highs are at 90dB SPL has to very well know that this 30-ish Hz low it has it may have to reach in excess of 110dB, you can see it in my chart.
Make sure that room and speaker can do it, although I very much doubt that anyone in the right mind would try that with the thread's speaker.

I know what you mean, but I don't know what level Amir listened to it at. I theoretically had my speakers at 101dB at 1 metre if a 0dBFS sine wave played at 1kHz, those were the settings I had my system at, albeit I know Fading Sun wouldn't push it all the way there as it's not a sine wave, it's music. It might be useful to know what "0dBFS sine wave equivalent at 1kHz" Amir had his system at for that listening test for comparison purposes - assuming the recording levels are the same for that peace of music between Youtube and other versions.

(I didn't see your graph anywhere)

 

[amirm]

I know what you mean, but I don't know what level Amir listened to it at. I theoretically had my speakers at 101dB at 1 metre if a 0dBFS sine wave played at 1kHz, those were the settings I had my system at, albeit I know Fading Sun wouldn't push it all the way there as it's not a sine wave, it's music. It might be useful to know what "0dBFS sine wave equivalent at 1kHz" Amir had his system at for that listening test for comparison purposes - assuming the recording levels are the same for that peace of music between Youtube and other versions.

(I didn't see your graph anywhere)

I let you do the math.

This is the amplifier+DAC I use for testing in our living room: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...phonics-da-s250nc-dac-power-amp-review.44379/

The artifact starts to become audible at -10 dB and by -5 dB, it is quite noticeable. At near 0 dB it is nearly unbearable.

 

[Robbo99999]

I let you do the math.

This is the amplifier+DAC I use for testing in our living room: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...phonics-da-s250nc-dac-power-amp-review.44379/

The artifact starts to become audible at -10 dB and by -5 dB, it is quite noticeable. At near 0 dB it is nearly unbearable.

Nice, thanks. It's really late here & I'm about to fall asleep so no math possible, ha! But yeah, if someone wants to work it out I'd like to read about it tomorrow morning, or I'll see if I can work it out sometime tomorrow.

 

[amirm]

One question. Measurements gave these a respectable preference score - 6. I realise that one metric can never describe speakers ( same with SINAD and electronics) but I found that strange.

The key to the metric is in these nice radar plots members are posting:

There is weighting factor on each. I believe Low Frequency Extension is 30%. Seeing how this speaker did so well there, it boosted the score. It also has fairly good on-axis response which helped.

My general impression was that it sounded good when it didn't get distorted so the preference score doesn't surprise me a lot.

 

[AndreaT]

Classic 3-way speaker design usually has the midrange diameter smaller than the woofer, larger than the tweeter. I wonder if asking a woofer sized speaker to deal with the mid frequencies is in itself an error in sound reproduction engineering. However, I am aware of the 2-way design compromises.
Thank you Amir for an impeccable review, this Elac is a pass in my book.

 

[Bleib]

Classic 3-way speaker design usually has the midrange diameter smaller than the woofer, larger than the tweeter. I wonder if asking a woofer sized speaker to deal with the mid frequencies is in itself an error in sound reproduction engineering. However, I am aware of the 2-way design compromises.
Thank you Amir for an impeccable review, this Elac is a pass in my book.

Doubtful, there are plenty of bigger drivers which operate in the midrange very well. And it's not exactly a new company either

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Good morning

When I see this review, I see very clearly that someone has left this company...

... this no longer has anything to do with the models that 'this person' had created but above all had accustomed us to very good performances: too bad

 

[kyuu]

sadly, Tidal doesn't seem to have that album

Eh?

 

[Thomas_A]

Whoever wants difficult stuff (warning, at its own expense) try this album.

https://www.discogs.com/release/965576-Pan-Sonic-Katodivaihe-Cathodephase?srsltid=AfmBOoqoBKYZvcccwgC0KNe_w9Ddd19uD9zDhuhNUavUBeoTV222WmPx

It's of course unlistenable at some points and can push gear at points they are not designed for (pretty sure square waves lurk at some points) and asks for every bit of power across the spectrum at same others.
Watching it at RTA is scary.

A bit over the top IMO. Yello is something I can fix, listening to Toy right now.

 

[JeremyFife]

The key to the metric is in these nice radar plots members are posting:

There is weighting factor on each. I believe Low Frequency Extension is 30%. Seeing how this speaker did so well there, it boosted the score. It also has fairly good on-axis response which helped.

My general impression was that it sounded good when it didn't get distorted so the preference score doesn't surprise me a lot.

Ideal, thank you!

 

[Power Pop 23]

The key to the metric is in these nice radar plots members are posting:

There is weighting factor on each. I believe Low Frequency Extension is 30%. Seeing how this speaker did so well there, it boosted the score. It also has fairly good on-axis response which helped.

My general impression was that it sounded good when it didn't get distorted so the preference score doesn't surprise me a lot.

The similarly-priced and more efficient, Polk Audio ES60 tower loudspeaker, has preference rating of 3.5 in posting #5 from member Maiky76, following a review by Amir with a suggested EQ to raise the preference rating to 5.8. Assuming the sample ELAC DF63 measured by Amir is representative, I think I would prefer the Polk ES60 for its' ability to handle higher SPL's with less distortion. I am a biased owner of the Polk ES60.

'Polk ES60 Tower Speaker Review'

Feb 8, 2024

This is a review, listening tests, equalization and detailed measurements of the Polk ES60 tower speaker. It was purchased new and kindly donated to the forum by a member. ES60 costs US $511 on Amazon and has 4.5 start average review (1925 ratings):

The ES60 is in entirely different class than other budget towers with good bit more weight and fit and finish. It uses the down firing port that Polk has in other speakers in the series.

I measured the ES60 on Klippel NFS without the grill with acoustic center of the tweeter. Temperatures in the measurement "chamber" was on the...

• amirm
• Replies: 118
• Forum: Speaker Reviews, Measurements and Discussion

• 

 

[DanielT]

What say you ELAC ?

It's interesting what ELAC had to say if they read this review/test. If the speaker is still under warranty, would ELAC, via an authorized speaker repair company, fix it (if not ELAC themselves). Probably a local verified speaker repairer since the actual assembly of the speaker is (probably) done in China.
OR would ELAC say just say that there is nothing wrong with the speaker?

By the way, if it is still under warranty, I would first investigate what type of troubleshooting I could do without invalidating the warranty.

 

[Robbo99999]

I let you do the math.

This is the amplifier+DAC I use for testing in our living room: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...phonics-da-s250nc-dac-power-amp-review.44379/

The artifact starts to become audible at -10 dB and by -5 dB, it is quite noticeable. At near 0 dB it is nearly unbearable.

Ok, so I've done the math to work out what the dB SPL levels were at 1 metre for the speaker during Amir's noticing of the tweeter issue, which he noted at - 10dB, - 5dB, and intolerable issue at 0dB on his DAC/amp. I have to say I got ChatGPT to work this out after I gave it sensitivity specs of speaker and voltage output level of Amirs DAC/amp when he did his review of that DAC/amp when he had it set at - 16.5dB. I sanity checked the output of ChatGPT and I think it's OK. Following is couple of screenshots showing the results as copying and pasting wouldn't give correct format for some reason:

Apologies that images so large, don't know why couldn't be cut & pasted text from ChatGPT without insert of strange characters. But anyway, using Amir's descriptors this means at 98.3dB it became audible, at 103.3dB it was quite noticeable, and at 108.3dB it was almost intolerable. Note that this is at 1m for one speaker and the dB levels are the dB at 1kHz if you had played a 0dBFS (full scale) sine wave at those amp/DAC settings with this speaker, so by no means was he actually exposed to those levels because the music would be recorded below 0dBFS and he would be sitting further away than 1m. This instead is just to give an idea of how his amp/DAC "system" was setup in terms of max potential SPL output at the different points that he noticed tweeter issues with this speaker. I find this useful for reference because I measure my system in my room using REW at my listening point and know what the 0dBFS output level is for each of my different amp settings that I use - so it gives me or you a way of listening to Amir's track where he identified tweeter issues and you can say to yourself "yes that's the level of stress that the speakers were exposed to when Amir identified the issues", plus for curiosity it enables you to check you don't have same issues on your system. I worked out for instance that my speakers were at 101dB for 1m when I listened to Amir's track yesterday and I didn't detect tweeter issues in my JBL 308p speakers for instance, albeit this is a bit less than some of the testing Amir did in his listening review but does still sit in the range where he started to notice issues. (I hope all the math and assumptions are correct in here, I think it's ok).

EDIT: if you read this post within the first 20min of me posting it then have another look as I changed a few subtle things that change the meaning quite a lot.

 

[Power Pop 23]

It's interesting what ELAC had to say if they read this review/test. If the speaker is still under warranty, would ELAC, via an authorized speaker repair company, fix it (if not ELAC themselves). Probably a local verified speaker repairer since the actual assembly of the speaker is (probably) done in China.
OR would ELAC say just say that there is nothing wrong with the speaker?

By the way, if it is still under warranty, I would first investigate what type of troubleshooting I could do without invalidating the warranty.

ELAC introduced the DF63 in September 2024. It carries a 3 year warranty. I assume Amir could pursue a warranty claim but how much more time should he be asked to expend ? I agree the onus is on ELAC to respond.

 

[Henryk]

Classic 3-way speaker design usually has the midrange diameter smaller than the woofer, larger than the tweeter. I wonder if asking a woofer sized speaker to deal with the mid frequencies is in itself an error in sound reproduction engineering. However, I am aware of the 2-way design compromises.
Thank you Amir for an impeccable review, this Elac is a pass in my book.

From what I've seen? Not at all.
Many VERY high-end, carefully designed speakers have size-matched mids and woofers.

The similarly-priced and more efficient, Polk Audio ES60 tower loudspeaker, has preference rating of 3.5 in posting #5 from member Maiky76, following a review by Amir with a suggested EQ to raise the preference rating to 5.8. Assuming the sample ELAC DF63 measured by Amir is representative, I think I would prefer the Polk ES60 for its' ability to handle higher SPL's with less distortion. I am a biased owner of the Polk ES60.

The ES60 doesn't go nearly as low though.

 

[beagleman]

Classic 3-way speaker design usually has the midrange diameter smaller than the woofer, larger than the tweeter. I wonder if asking a woofer sized speaker to deal with the mid frequencies is in itself an error in sound reproduction engineering. However, I am aware of the 2-way design compromises.
Thank you Amir for an impeccable review, this Elac is a pass in my book.

I have read BOTH Amir's and Erin's reviews and compared their measurements.

I am not feeling it it a "Pass" as you say, but more curious as to why the large differences found in measurements.
When two well respected guys come to fairly different conclusions, I tend to want to know why, and if the speaker was damaged or broken in any way, or maybe quality control issues etc.

Of course its easy to slag off any product easily, but takes some work to figure the "Why" of the differences.

 

[Power Pop 23]

From what I've seen? Not at all.
Many VERY high-end, carefully designed speakers have size-matched mids and woofers.



The ES60 doesn't go nearly as low though.

Yes, another trade-off in the world of high-fidelity.

 

[Wg1]

Good morning

When I see this review, I see very clearly that someone has left this company...

... this no longer has anything to do with the models that 'this person' had created but above all had accustomed us to very good performances: too bad

does the name of “‘this person’” rhyme with “SoundREW Tones?”

 

[Wg1]

ELAC introduced the DF63 in September 2024. It carries a 3 year warranty. I assume Amir could pursue a warranty claim but how much more time should he be asked to expend ? I agree the onus is on ELAC to respond.

Having pursued an Elac warranty (db-63 for an annoying tweeter resonance), they very much seem like a “one man/person” operation based in California. So there are probably some layers to making this happen. They are pretty responsive and sent a free shipping label though! My speaker got damaged due to poor packaging on the way (scrap paper basically) so they sent me a new speaker.

My guess is that their presence in the US is through an independent distributor, not unlike the proposed arrangement between our host and Asci.