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Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

Beershaun

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Show me one with HDMI arc connection, I use my speakers with my TV as a PC monitor.
Nad m33
 

Beershaun

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Note that for music you want eARC because ARC's bandwidth is too low (or so I am told).
I've not heard that? Could you share the source? HDMI has plenty of bandwidth for music since it's designed to handle video and audio at the same time. It has other problems but I've not heard bandwidth is one of them.
 

cavedriver

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I've not heard that? Could you share the source? HDMI has plenty of bandwidth for music since it's designed to handle video and audio at the same time. It has other problems but I've not heard bandwidth is one of them.
Yes, HDMI has plenty of bandwidth going to the TV, it was the first implementation of ARC, carrying the signal back to the receiver, which was limited and was why they introduced eARC. Apparently the bandwidth difference is substantial, as in 1 Mbit/S versus 37 MBits/S. Here's a page with some info on it. The stupid thing is that if you have a receiver with HDMI 2.1 then you probably have eARC and don't need 2.1, but if you have eARC then you have HDMI 2.1 and don't really need eARC (if you're receiver has all the Dolby audio processing modes and don't need to rely on your TV to do it). The Onkyo nr1030 that I'm using is HMDI 2.0 and ARC so I can't use it for video switching for full 4k video and I can't let my TV do the switching because I can't get all the surround modes back through ARC.
 

Phidel

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Nad m33

Omg... It costs arround 6000€, is too expensive for me, I need a similar solution but more cheap (max 1500€). For this reason I'm thinking with the Denon AVRS-970H, it has room correction, HDMI arc, crossover for the sub, etc. the question I have is the sound quality my Marantz nr1200 sounds really great...

Yes, HDMI has plenty of bandwidth going to the TV, it was the first implementation of ARC, carrying the signal back to the receiver, which was limited and was why they introduced eARC. Apparently the bandwidth difference is substantial, as in 1 Mbit/S versus 37 MBits/S. Here's a page with some info on it. The stupid thing is that if you have a receiver with HDMI 2.1 then you probably have eARC and don't need 2.1, but if you have eARC then you have HDMI 2.1 and don't really need eARC (if you're receiver has all the Dolby audio processing modes and don't need to rely on your TV to do it). The Onkyo nr1030 that I'm using is HMDI 2.0 and ARC so I can't use it for video switching for full 4k video and I can't let my TV do the switching because I can't get all the surround modes back through ARC.

I'm using 2 certified eARC HDMI 2.1 cables and I can't set the sample rate, the Marantz app always shows me 48 kHz and there is no information about the bit (I guess it works at 16 bit), so the Marantz plays the sound always at 48kHz /16bit, what can I do if I want 192kHz/24bit sound quality?
 

Bernard23

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If you have a digital out from the Sonos then I would think you have a number of options to do DSP. Using a raspberry pi with a HiFiBerry card comes to mind:
That could work, the sonos connect has 2 USB out and a toslink out. Presumably the device is operated from a mobile app?
I don't need the DAC functionality though, I'd just use the digital out into the onboard dac in my amp or my Element 2.
 

Bernard23

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Better still? I could apply room correction to all sources.

 

Beershaun

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Yes, HDMI has plenty of bandwidth going to the TV, it was the first implementation of ARC, carrying the signal back to the receiver, which was limited and was why they introduced eARC. Apparently the bandwidth difference is substantial, as in 1 Mbit/S versus 37 MBits/S. Here's a page with some info on it. The stupid thing is that if you have a receiver with HDMI 2.1 then you probably have eARC and don't need 2.1, but if you have eARC then you have HDMI 2.1 and don't really need eARC (if you're receiver has all the Dolby audio processing modes and don't need to rely on your TV to do it). The Onkyo nr1030 that I'm using is HMDI 2.0 and ARC so I can't use it for video switching for full 4k video and I can't let my TV do the switching because I can't get all the surround modes back through ARC.
Thanks for the info. That's good to know.
 

Beershaun

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Omg... It costs arround 6000€, is too expensive for me, I need a similar solution but more cheap (max 1500€). For this reason I'm thinking with the Denon AVRS-970H, it has room correction, HDMI arc, crossover for the sub, etc. the question I have is the sound quality my Marantz nr1200 sounds really great...



I'm using 2 certified eARC HDMI 2.1 cables and I can't set the sample rate, the Marantz app always shows me 48 kHz and there is no information about the bit (I guess it works at 16 bit), so the Marantz plays the sound always at 48kHz /16bit, what can I do if I want 192kHz/24bit sound quality?
If you need HDMI at a lower budget then the Denon AVRs are the way to go. If you can get it, I'd recommend a model that has Audessey xt32. This is the better room correction system that allows you to adjust the room correction curve with the companion smartphone app.

On sound quality, the Denon x-series all measure better than their sister marantz units so get one of those that has xt32 dsp and equal to more power and you should be happy.

 

Phidel

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If you need HDMI at a lower budget then the Denon AVRs are the way to go. If you can get it, I'd recommend a model that has Audessey xt32. This is the better room correction system that allows you to adjust the room correction curve with the companion smartphone app.

On sound quality, the Denon x-series all measure better than their sister marantz units so get one of those that has xt32 dsp and equal to more power and you should be happy.


Do you know if this model has filter to emit the bass only via subwoofer?
 

Benedium

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Do you know if this model has filter to emit the bass only via subwoofer?
Of course x3700h has crossover settings for every speaker. I was switching between my loxjie a30 and my denon x3600h and I have to say they sound similar in tonality and resolution. My friend's hypex nc252 sounded much better of course.
 
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Bernard23

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Wharfedale SW150 turned up today. Easy to setup, using the sub out on my Denon PMA-600NE that also arrived today. Latter doesn't seem to struggle to power the Elacs, though I've not battered it yet. The sub has integrated better than I thought, set to its lowest crossover frequency, as there's a big room resonance around 45Hz. It's not the same as the 500W REL I once owned, but for £130 open box from AV.com I can't complain! Using a sweep tone test, it's clear that the Elacs go pretty deep, but I've got some nodes around 150Hz and 80Hz that I could partly adress with the amp tone controls.
 

Beershaun

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Do you know if this model has filter to emit the bass only via subwoofer?
Yes. Audessey handles all of this. Denons room correction software performs the crossover calculations and applies them as well as phase, level matching, and delay.
 

Curroskywalker

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Hello, I am new to the forum. I've been reading for a long time but it's the first time I write.
First I want to apologize for my English because it is not very good.
I've been wanting to change my debut 6.2 for something better for a few months because since I bought them I've been missing my old Vieta Lancer II, and I have great doubts with these DBR62 and the Wharfedale Linton. I have listened to them both but in different environments and I admit that the Elac impressed me a lot the first time I heard them and the Linton not so much.
The problem comes because I have listened to both in dedicated rooms and amplifiers that are probably better than mine. My big question is which ones could be better adapted in my living room and the equipment I have. My amp is actually a Yamaha AVR, the RXA870, which is giving me good results but I don't know if it will be good for any of the speakers I mentioned. My room is about 18 m2 but the listening area is an equilateral triangle of 2.5m and the biggest problem is that I can't separate the speakers more than a foot from the wall. The music I listen to is quite varied, from electronica to jazz and changing the AVR is not an option for now because I also watch a lot of movies.
Based on that data I would appreciate any advice. I could change the Linton for the Denton 85 but I listened to them and I didn't like them that much and with the Elac I'm afraid that the jump over my debut isn't that significant. Thank you.
 

Beershaun

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Welcome to ASR! My general answer is you likely will benefit more from room correction/dsp and adding a subwoofer to get the sound you want instead of replacing the Elacs. Can you tell us more about your entire system and budget?
 

iNetRunner

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Omg... It costs arround 6000€, is too expensive for me, I need a similar solution but more cheap (max 1500€). For this reason I'm thinking with the Denon AVRS-970H, it has room correction, HDMI arc, crossover for the sub, etc. the question I have is the sound quality my Marantz nr1200 sounds really great...



I'm using 2 certified eARC HDMI 2.1 cables and I can't set the sample rate, the Marantz app always shows me 48 kHz and there is no information about the bit (I guess it works at 16 bit), so the Marantz plays the sound always at 48kHz /16bit, what can I do if I want 192kHz/24bit sound quality?
NAD also has some so cheaper options than the M33 (as awesome as it is). Given your price point, I’d ask your local NAD distributor if NAD has given any recent estimates on final release/availability of the NAD C 389. Originally it was supposed to launch 6 months ago (at the price of 1499€), but it’s still “coming soon”. The C 389 (like the existing C 399 that retails for 2199€) don’t have out of the box Dirac Live support (but they do have HDMI eARC connectors) — for Dirac Live you need to purchase the additional MDC2 BluOS-D module (599€). Though, obviously you then also get the additional BluOS network streaming functionalities too.

The slightly older NAD models that can be fitted with the MDC HDMI-2 module (379€) will only net them HDMI ARC functionality (i.e. not the eARC). But since we are talking about 2ch products, it might be capable of 2ch PCM, but that I don’t know for sure if that’s possible or not.

Anyway, the suggested Denon AVR-X3700H (or the slightly more expensive AVR-X3800H) might be a somewhat workable compromise. But it’s bit of a waste and a non-optimal solution to go for an AVR when you know that you will only ever have a 2.1 system.

Edit: The Denon AVR-Sxxx series products you were considering previously would be quite a step down from the X3x00 series AVRs. The Audyssey implementation in the S series models is the poor Audyssey MultEQ. And in X1x00 and X2x00 it is still only the mid-tier Audyssey MultEQ XT version. Only in X3x00 and more expensive models do you get the best Audyssey MultEQ XT32 implementation.
 
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Curroskywalker

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Welcome to ASR! My general answer is you likely will benefit more from room correction/dsp and adding a subwoofer to get the sound you want instead of replacing the Elacs. Can you tell us more about your entire system and budget?
I have two subwoofers, one in front of 12" and one behind of 10" and the room correction is impossible because it is the living room and it is not a dedicated room. The problem with my elacs is that the sound never convinced me. At low volumes they always sounded like they had a bed sheet on them and at high volume they got a little out of control. The idea was to get speakers with better performance at any volume and that might sound different from the debut ones, which have always seemed a bit harsh to me.
As I already said, I loved the sound of my Vieta speakers and I feel that I have lost some clarity in the sound with my Elac Debut 6.2. My big question is whether the Yamaha RXA870 will have enough performance for the DBR62 or the Linton, or their possible alternatives, the UniFi Reference 6.2 and the Denton. The biggest problem I have encountered has been with my new Pro-Ject X2 turntable, I don't quite like the sound there and it is connected to a zen phono and from there to the Yamaha. I know the Ortofon 2m silver isn't very good either and I want to change it because the om20 I had in my old Pro-Ject was better than the Silver.
 
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Bernard23

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I have two subwoofers, one in front of 12" and one behind of 10" and the room correction is impossible because it is the living room and it is not a dedicated room. The problem with my elacs is that the sound never convinced me. At low volumes they always sounded like they had a bed sheet on them and at high volume they got a little out of control. The idea was to get speakers with better performance at any volume and that might sound different from the debut ones, which have always seemed a bit harsh to me.
As I already said, I loved the sound of my Vieta speakers and I feel that I have lost some clarity in the sound with my Elac Debut 6.2. My big question is whether the Yamaha RXA870 will have enough performance for the DBR62 or the Linton, or their possible alternatives, the UniFi Reference 6.2 and the Denton. The biggest problem I have encountered has been with my new Pro-Ject X2 turntable, I don't quite like the sound there and it is connected to a zen phono and from there to the Yamaha. I know the Ortofon 2m silver isn't very good either and I want to change it because the om20 I had in my old Pro-Ject was better than the Silver.
Why did you get rid of the vieta speakers? Can you not get another pair?
 

NirreFirre

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I have two subwoofers, one in front of 12" and one behind of 10" and the room correction is impossible because it is the living room and it is not a dedicated room. The problem with my elacs is that the sound never convinced me. At low volumes they always sounded like they had a bed sheet on them and at high volume they got a little out of control. The idea was to get speakers with better performance at any volume and that might sound different from the debut ones, which have always seemed a bit harsh to me.
As I already said, I loved the sound of my Vieta speakers and I feel that I have lost some clarity in the sound with my Elac Debut 6.2. My big question is whether the Yamaha RXA870 will have enough performance for the DBR62 or the Linton, or their possible alternatives, the UniFi Reference 6.2 and the Denton. The biggest problem I have encountered has been with my new Pro-Ject X2 turntable, I don't quite like the sound there and it is connected to a zen phono and from there to the Yamaha. I know the Ortofon 2m silver isn't very good either and I want to change it because the om20 I had in my old Pro-Ject was better than the Silver.
I guess we can't really help having so many sources of error and variables. Generally, problems (noise, distortion, "low fidelity") should be handled in the following order (of declining magnitude); room and setup, speakers, electronics. I support the suggestion of keeping the measured neutral DBR62s and invest some time and money into a calibrated measuring microphone (MiniDSP UMIK-1 or 2) and learning to make REW measurements.

Subjective evaluations, days or weeks apart with different gear in various rooms and your own state (tired, stressed, happy etc) won't be an effective or cheap way. It can be joyful though, for some but trying to understand what is neutral and high fidelity without tools like that are futile.
 

Phidel

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NAD also has some so cheaper options than the M33 (as awesome as it is). Given your price point, I’d ask your local NAD distributor if NAD has given any recent estimates on final release/availability of the NAD C 389. Originally it was supposed to launch 6 months ago (at the price of 1499€), but it’s still “coming soon”. The C 389 (like the existing C 399 that retails for 2199€) don’t have out of the box Dirac Live support (but they do have HDMI eARC connectors) — for Dirac Live you need to purchase the additional MDC2 BluOS-D module (599€). Though, obviously you then also get the additional BluOS network streaming functionalities too.

The slightly older NAD models that can be fitted with the MDC HDMI-2 module (379€) will only net them HDMI ARC functionality (i.e. not the eARC). But since we are talking about 2ch products, it might be capable of 2ch PCM, but that I don’t know for sure if that’s possible or not.

Anyway, the suggested Denon AVR-X3700H (or the slightly more expensive AVR-X3800H) might be a somewhat workable compromise. But it’s bit of a waste and a non-optimal solution to go for an AVR when you know that you will only ever have a 2.1 system.

Edit: The Denon AVR-Sxxx series products you were considering previously would be quite a step down from the X3x00 series AVRs. The Audyssey implementation in the S series models is the poor Audyssey MultEQ. And in X1x00 and X2x00 it is still only the mid-tier Audyssey MultEQ XT version. Only in X3x00 and more expensive models do you get the best Audyssey MultEQ XT32 implementation.
I can get the NAD C 389 for 1500€, do you think this is the best option for my setup?
 
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