Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[Audiofool1Q84]

I even had the chance to listen to my pair on a lowly Marantz PM5005 and they still sounded amazing in an untreated room with no sub. I just love these speakers.

 

[delta76]

Good speakers will sound good (unless you have a taste for some "sound signature") as long as the amp is 1. clean enough and 2. has enough power. there is no point of finding "the perfect amp", any amp with SINAD > 90 (and if you are really picky, >100) with > 50wpc (you will unlikely draw that much, but just to be on the safe side) will be good

 

[Triliza]

Lately I run into threads where people swear that different amps sound completely different from each other in their system. Now I am not an expert, I have had three amps my whole life, so this may be indeed true, but has anyone done a blind test to confirm all this? I'm not saying you have to do a blind test, anyone can believe whatever they want, but it adds credibility to have some real data about this.

 

[delta76]

Well, people even swear putting an amp on a stand makes an audible difference, as here https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/extreme-snake-oil.24765/post-1316562
So no doubt they claiming different amps sound completely different.
That might be true, however, for amps that significantly distort the signal (cough, tube amps, cough), but I would really doubt most people (except some extremely gifted audio professionals, perhaps) can tell two amps with SINAD both > 90 apart.

 

[tw 2022]

Well, people even swear putting an amp on a stand makes an audible difference, as here https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/extreme-snake-oil.24765/post-1316562
So no doubt they claiming different amps sound completely different.
That might be true, however, for amps that significantly distort the signal (cough, tube amps, cough), but I would really doubt most people (except some extremely gifted audio professionals, perhaps) can tell two amps with SINAD both > 90 apart.

Imo a/b amps are impossible to tell apart within the limits of normal performance... As long as it isn't clipping ....

 

[kolestonin]

boxem audio Arthur 3409/N2
MiniDsp Flex
SVS SB1000pro
Elac debut reference DBR-62

Set everything together last Monday.
Just installed the software and did the basic settings in Flex plugin.
Placed the speakers exactly where I had my previous set(JBL LSR305).
I had worked a lot on placement and listening position with my previous speakers and same sub.
I know you want measurements and not subjective listening experience.
But I don't even have the latter.
Just gave them 50 hours of playing radio in the background when I was at home.
And a pair of flac files.
Some critical listening will start this weekend.

My first impressions are....wow!
Speakers sound amazing and I am particularly pleased with their bass and surprised I don't miss accuracy given I was used to a pair of studio monitors. I could say Elac's sound more accurate to my ears during this first hours with them.

I can't imagine how these things can sound better, and Dirac or REW seem missions impossible to me as this is my first passive set up and I even struggled(and found help in this forum) to make some basic settings on outputs and crossovers on the plugin.

EQ also seems complicated but I will definitely experiment with it.

ps: only tried them in a stereo setup(toed in). Just listened them straight for 5 minutes and I hands down prefer them toed in.
I will off course try different angles and give some more time to direct positioning.

 

[Triliza]

boxem audio Arthur 3409/N2
MiniDsp Flex
SVS SB1000pro
Elac debut reference DBR-62

Set everything together last Monday.
Just installed the software and did the basic settings in Flex plugin.
Placed the speakers exactly where I had my previous set(JBL LSR305).
I had worked a lot on placement and listening position with my previous speakers and same sub.
I know you want measurements and not subjective listening experience.
But I don't even have the latter.
Just gave them 50 hours of playing radio in the background when I was at home.
And a pair of flac files.
Some critical listening will start this weekend.

My first impressions are....wow!
Speakers sound amazing and I am particularly pleased with their bass and surprised I don't miss accuracy given I was used to a pair of studio monitors. I could say Elac's sound more accurate to my ears during this first hours with them.

I can't imagine how these things can sound better, and Dirac or REW seem missions impossible to me as this is my first passive set up and I even struggled(and found help in this forum) to make some basic settings on outputs and crossovers on the plugin.

EQ also seems complicated but I will definitely experiment with it.

ps: only tried them in a stereo setup(toed in). Just listened them straight for 5 minutes and I hands down prefer them toed in.
I will off course try different angles and give some more time to direct positioning.

That room begs for a projector. An entry level HD, nothing too expensive. Paint the wall a suitable color and you won't need a screen. Enjoy the speakers

 

[pevsfreedom]

Can someone help me out with sub crossover for these speakers?

I have Klipsch R-10S. The speakers are 5' apart and the sub is in between (only way it works in my room). I have it at 60hz right now. I have Yamaha S501 amp, so I can't adjust much beyond just the gain/crossover. I can't tell if I should have it at 80-100 since it's between the speakers, or if 60 is probably right where I need to be?

The speakers are 1' off the back wall, and the right one is about 10" off the corner wall, so that corner is a bit bassy, and the sub's on that side. I have gain at like 2.5. I got a thicker blanket coming for the big empty wall, cause I can't afford no wall treatment buying all this expensive audio stuff recently.

Going solely by ear I can't hear a difference. So maybe it doesn't matter. And a picture cause why not.

 

[test1223]

You won't get a good transition between the subwoofer and speaker without a dedicated crossover device like a mini dsp or a AV-Receiver.

The best results without a crossover is about 40 to 50 Hz as crossover frequency and the phase switch on the position where the bass is louder at the listing position.

Without a crossover and lowering room modes the bass won't be good no matter how hard you try.

 

[pevsfreedom]

You won't get a good transition between the subwoofer and speaker without a dedicated crossover device like a mini dsp or a AV-Receiver.

The best results without a crossover is about 40 to 50 Hz as crossover frequency and the phase switch on the position where the bass is louder at the listing position.

Without a crossover and lowering room modes the bass won't be good no matter how hard you try.

Why 40-50? Everything I've seen on the Elac's says about 60. Just curious. Others told me to go 100-120 if it's between the speakers, which seemed weird to me. This is for 2.1 music only. I have phase at normal, I did test with SPL. It was about the same at both normal and reverse.

What kind of "mini dsp" might you recommend on a budget? I'm new to hi-fi in this regard... I will say when I adjust the crossover on the sub itself, it doesn't seem to change much of anything. Even if I turn it to the 200 max or whatever it is, it seems everything it still playing pretty much about the same to my ears. I assume this involves buying the mini DSP and getting into room EQ'ing and into the digital EQ thing, which I've been mostly going against doing (actual diagnosed OCD person thing; that many options is a nightmare to me).

And room modes is basically handled by wall treatment? That's definitely a down the line idea. I just moved from OR to SC in May and the budget is about spent, esp. since all this equipment is new.

 

[Chromatischism]

I have Klipsch R-10S. The speakers are 5' apart and the sub is in between (only way it works in my room). I have it at 60hz right now. I have Yamaha S501 amp, so I can't adjust much beyond just the gain/crossover. I can't tell if I should have it at 80-100 since it's between the speakers, or if 60 is probably right where I need to be?

That's not the only place I see for the sub, but anyway, the crossover is decided based on measurements and listening. With that said, I bet 80 Hz would work better than 60 Hz for those speakers.

And room modes is basically handled by wall treatment?

Those can't be fixed by wall treatments. Only moving subs and seats, then EQ, helps there.

 

[pevsfreedom]

That's not the only place I see for the sub, but anyway, the crossover is decided based on measurements and listening. With that said, I bet 80 Hz would work better than 60 Hz for those speakers.

Lol I'll take any advice you have. The sub is kinda hidden next to the guitar amp if you can see it. Before I had the speakers closer together and the sub in the direct corner, but figured more distance between speakers was better. Where would you suggest?

I'm not ready to delve into room EQ yet.. maybe down the road. I've had this set-up barely a month. Once I get some extra money I do want to try to get into that and the wall treatment. For now I'm just trying to do the best with what I have.

Those can't be fixed by wall treatments. Only moving subs and seats, then EQ, helps there.

Hmm ok. Never heard of room modes. Again, new to this Will research.

 

[SeshatCZ]

I have tried with 140 Hz in a similar situation - a 100 Watt subwoofer in the middle in the same horizontal level as were Elacs. The bass boost was definitely there, a bit wider stage, but I have been disappointed with a lack of "soft texture" in lows, to which I have been accustomed with them already. So I preferred to let them without Sub for serious listening in the end... I think, that it's also heavily related to a type of filter used, and definitely measurements will finetune it further. So, the above suggested active crossover with DSP will help you more then some adviced "best" frequencies...

 

[pevsfreedom]

I have tried with 140 Hz in a similar situation - a 100 Watt subwoofer in the middle in the same horizontal level as were Elacs. The bass boost was definitely there, a bit wider stage, but I have been disappointed with a lack of "soft texture" in lows, to which I have been accustomed with them already. So I preferred to let them without Sub for serious listening in the end... I think, that it's also heavily related to a type of filter used, and definitely measurements will finetune it further. So, the above suggested active crossover with DSP will help you more then some adviced "best" frequencies...

So essentially it's just a guess until I get down and dirty with it and figure it out more scientifically.

 

[test1223]

Why 40-50? Everything I've seen on the Elac's says about 60. Just curious. Others told me to go 100-120 if it's between the speakers, which seemed weird to me. This is for 2.1 music only. I have phase at normal, I did test with SPL. It was about the same at both normal and reverse.

What kind of "mini dsp" might you recommend on a budget? I'm new to hi-fi in this regard... I will say when I adjust the crossover on the sub itself, it doesn't seem to change much of anything. Even if I turn it to the 200 max or whatever it is, it seems everything it still playing pretty much about the same to my ears. I assume this involves buying the mini DSP and getting into room EQ'ing and into the digital EQ thing, which I've been mostly going against doing (actual diagnosed OCD person thing; that many options is a nightmare to me).

And room modes is basically handled by wall treatment? That's definitely a down the line idea. I just moved from OR to SC in May and the budget is about spent, esp. since all this equipment is new.

About 40 - 50Hz is the -3dB point of the elac in a room. With a higher crossover of the subwoofer you will most likely create a peak in the overlap of elac and sub.

If you have a hard time to figure out the effect of the subwoofer at all. Try to use a higher subwoofer volume to test the effect of the crossover frequency and phase.

I have tried with 140 Hz in a similar situation - a 100 Watt subwoofer in the middle in the same horizontal level as were Elacs. The bass boost was definitely there, a bit wider stage, but I have been disappointed with a lack of "soft texture" in lows, to which I have been accustomed with them already. So I preferred to let them without Sub for serious listening in the end... I think, that it's also heavily related to a type of filter used, and definitely measurements will finetune it further. So, the above suggested active crossover with DSP will help you more then some adviced "best" frequencies...

To avoid the subwoofer is the typical reaction of a subwoofer which isn't integrated well. And without a highpass for the speaker and a fitting lowpass for the subwoofer and some measurements and eq of room modes it won't be good enough for most people.

 

[pevsfreedom]

Is there any truth that if the sub is between the speakers a higher crossover is usually better, like from 40-60 if it were outside the speakers to 80+ if it's between the speakers instead? I read that on a few websites.

Thanks for the info. I've seen 40-50 and 80hz mentioned. Guess I'll turn it up and see what sounds better.

To avoid the subwoofer is the typical reaction of a subwoofer which isn't integrated well. And without a highpass for the speaker and a fitting lowpass for the subwoofer and some measurements and eq of room modes it won't be good enough for most people.

Are you saying the sub itself isn't a good idea for most people without EQ? I notice a huge improvement with it. It's obviously not properly tuned but it definitely adds to the experience.

 

[test1223]

Is there any truth that if the sub is between the speakers a higher crossover is usually better, like from 40-60 if it were outside the speakers to 80+ if it's between the speakers instead? I read that on a few websites.

Thanks for the info. I've seen 40-50 and 80hz mentioned. Guess I'll turn it up and see what sounds better.



Are you saying the sub itself isn't a good idea for most people without EQ? I notice a huge improvement with it. It's obviously not properly tuned but it definitely adds to the experience.

Yes the poor integration is to disturbing for music at least and the cheaper subwoofer didn't provide a way to apply room eq or a highpass of the speakers and without both it is next to impossible to integrate the subwoofer well.

Outside the speakers the localization of the subwoofer can be a problem therefore the lower crossover frequency which helps. But the best crossover point is dependent on the subwoofer speaker positioning and room and can't be generalized.

A perfect system also has two subwoofer for left and right channel which are placed not to far away from the speaker. Since research has shown that the sense of the room size of the recording and envelopment of sound needs stereo subbass with its phase information.

 

[Chromatischism]

Hmm ok. Never heard of room modes. Again, new to this Will research.

Think of them as standing waves. The area in the bathtub where a wave collides with the reflection from the previous wave.

 

[pevsfreedom]

Yes the poor integration is to disturbing for music at least and the cheaper subwoofer didn't provide a way to apply room eq or a highpass of the speakers and without both it is next to impossible to integrate the subwoofer well.

Outside the speakers the localization of the subwoofer can be a problem therefore the lower crossover frequency which helps. But the best crossover point is dependent on the subwoofer speaker positioning and room and can't be generalized.

A perfect system also has two subwoofer for left and right channel which are placed not to far away from the speaker. Since research has shown that the sense of the room size of the recording and envelopment of sound needs stereo subbass with its phase information.

Sometimes I find a strong discrepancy on forums between realizing "perfect situations" and actual real world advice, limitations, and application. Maybe I'm on the wrong forum. I've been a lurker for awhile but wanted to ask maybe what I can do for my specific situation. I know it's not perfect I think what you're saying is lowering the crossover to 40-50hz allows for less "interference" coming from the sub without proper EQ'ing. What I will say is that I 100% prefer the sub being "ON" at any crossover over it being off, but I am hardly an audiophile. I just like to do the best with what I have.

Think of them as standing waves. The area in the bathtub where a wave collides with the reflection from the previous wave.

Thanks. And that's an EQ issue over a wall treatment one? I'm still curious where you might place the sub instead?

 

[Chromatischism]

Thanks. I'm still curious where you might place the sub instead?

It's hard to say from here. Your current spot may be the best, or it may not be. You'll just need to test. Ideally, we measure with something like a MiniDSP UMIK-1.