Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[Chromatischism]

Spend some time listening to another speaker. Or no speaker. Then come back to them. In other words, cleanse your audio palette to remove any mental break in. When I did that, my speakers always sounded worse to me when I started listening to them again.

When you find speakers that immediately put a smile on your face no matter how long you've been away from them, you know you're "there" in your speaker journey.

 

[E-Lint]

If I accept that break in does not happen then at what boundary do we say we have a faulty speaker. Of those thousands that you reference what was the variability of their QC? According to you, none. They all sounded proper out of the gate. I'm a mere layman and terrible at statistics but I don't buy that. I really don't mean to be a pain but I do indeed have my experience with these specifically and you do not. So what's your basis for judging what I hear?

 

[E-Lint]

Spend some time listening to another speaker. Or no speaker. Then come back to them. In other words, cleanse your audio palette to remove any mental break in. When I did that, my speakers always sounded worse to me when I started listening to them again.

When you find speakers that immediately put a smile on your face no matter how long you've been away from them, you know you're "there" in your speaker journey.

Yes, you are right about that. It's why I will be comparing them to the Navis units.

 

[E-Lint]

If I recall Andrew Jones's YouTube interview with Steve Guttenberg correctly, he actually discounted the idea of speaker break-in, implying that only the first few minutes of playing make a difference. If you can point to statements to the contrary, I'm certainly open. In any case, it would be worth it to review that video.

I will search that Chaconee, thank you.

 

[Doodski]

If I accept that break in does not happen then at what boundary do we say we have a faulty speaker. Of those thousands that you reference what was the variability of their QC? According to you, none. They all sounded proper out of the gate. I'm a mere layman and terrible at statistics but I don't buy that. I really don't mean to be a pain but I do indeed have my experience with these specifically and you do not. So what's your basis for judging what I hear?

You are mentioning QC when before we where talking about break-in. Totally different things. The brands that l retailed include Energy, Mirage, JBL, B&W, Celestion, Paradigm, KEF, Infinity, RFT, Magnat, JBL, many different Japanese package speakers, Yamaha, Klipsch, Bose, Polk Audio, Definitive Technology, MB Quart and others. Those are decent brands and they had pretty good QA/QC. I have experienced break-in too but it was a mental thing and also the room setup was a major factor for those that I used @ home. As I grew accustomed to the various speakers and found their limits and abilities I turned them up louder and adjusted the tone controls and they opened up as people say.

 

[E-Lint]

Quite aside from what we've been talking about....as a returning newbie I have been gobsmacked by how far down the diminishing returns curve we have traveled since I left. $600-$1000 speakers that hit way above the weight I was used to say 15 years ago. Perfectly acceptable integrateds or even pre's at that mark up to say $2000. It's seemng a bit like a golden age to me. I'm amazed.

 

[E-Lint]

You are mentioning QC when before we where talking about break-in. Totally different things. The brands that l retailed include Energy, Mirage, JBL, B&W, Celestion, Paradigm, KEF, Infinity, RFT, Magnat, JBL, many different Japanese package speakers, Yamaha, Klipsch, Bose, Polk Audio, Definitive Technology, MB Quart and others. Those are decent brands and they had pretty good QA/QC. I have experienced break-in too but it was a mental thing and also the room setup was a major factor for those that I used @ home. As I grew accustomed to the various speakers and found their limits and abilities I turned them up louder and adjusted the tone controls and they opened up as people say.

I appreciate what you're saying but you can not judge what I heard and hear. Non-starter but thanks sincerely for taking time with me.

 

[Doodski]

Quite aside from what we've been talking about....as a returning newbie I have been gobsmacked by how far down the diminishing returns curve we have traveled since I left. $600-$1000 speakers that hit way above the weight I was used to say 15 years ago. Perfectly acceptable integrateds or even pre's at that mark up to say $2000. It's seemng a bit like a golden age to me. I'm amazed.

Things have improved big time for some stuff. The better Japanese amps from the 80's and 90's are still very good even today so we should not discount those. They test/measure well and many are still operating today. The semi-conductor based units where a mostly solved issue decades ago and so today we think that the new stuff is better but in reality a decent Japanese amp is still relevant.

 

[Chaconne]

I will search that Chaconee, thank you.

Here you go:

Andrew Jones on speaker break-in

Andrew goes into great detail about the physics of driver behavior, and it gets pretty complicated. He does say that driver behavior changes, but the overall implication, as far as I understand him, is that the changes are relatively small and occur only in the very initial stages of playing. He concentrates mainly on the physical behavior of the drivers rather than the sound of the speakers themselves, so it's not entirely clear to me what the implications are. But my interpretation is that he is downplaying the significance of break-in. If I'm wrong, I'm open to clarification.

 

[Doodski]

I appreciate what you're saying but you can not judge what I heard and hear. Non-starter but thanks sincerely for taking time with me.

I would like to see a blind AB test of a identical new pair of Elacs and a pair that have been broken-in. That would be the best test.

 

[Doodski]

I appreciate what you're saying but you can not judge what I heard and hear. Non-starter but thanks sincerely for taking time with me.

Thanks but you don't need to thank me. I chat everybody here if I can and take the good with the bad. No surprises on opinions and beliefs from me.

 

[E-Lint]

I would like to see a blind AB test of a identical new pair of Elacs and a pair that have been broken-in. That would be the best test.

I would too but, as I said early on, break in does not happen as a ruler. My experience has been infrequent out of Lord knows how many of mine and others I've helped set up over the years. It's not a good AB but I am interested to see what the Navis compared to them reveals. We'll see.

 

[E-Lint]

Things have improved big time for some stuff. The better Japanese amps from the 80's and 90's are still very good even today so we should not discount those. They test/measure well and many are still operating today. The semi-conductor based units where a mostly solved issue decades ago and so today we think that the new stuff is better but in reality a decent Japanese amp is still relevant.

With moves, divorces and yard sales (oh my) the good Pioneers, et al, got lost long ago.

 

[Doodski]

I would too but, as I said early on, break in does not happen as a ruler. My experience has been infrequent out of Lord knows how many of mine and others I've helped set up over the years. It's not a good AB but I am interested to see what the Navis compared to them reveals. We'll see.

If break-in exists for some speakers. Then what does break-in? The spider, the surround suspension would break in. Some of the surround suspensions are very compliant as new and would not soften after time in likely they would become more non-complaint due to the foam or rubber hardening. There's nothing else that could break in.

 

[Doodski]

With moves, divorces and yard sales (oh my) the good Pioneers, et al, got lost long ago.

Pioneer is one of the better ones. They where abused as lost leaders in the 90's by retailers but where good product.

 

[E-Lint]

If break-in exists for some speakers. Then what does break-in? The spider, the surround suspension would break in. Some of the surround suspensions are very compliant as new and would not soften after time in likely they would become more non-complaint due to the foam or rubber hardening. There's nothing else that could break in.

It's a good question but speakers are anything but digital, as in it either works or it doesn't. So in my mind the materials used, cones, spiders are candidates. The throw, the ability to move and cause sound millions of times is a non-trivial task when you get down to it.

 

[E-Lint]

Pioneer is one of the better ones. They where abused as lost leaders in the 90's by retailers but where good product.

I was in the Air Force so much of the good gear was available to me for cheap. TEAC reel to reels, Sansui, etc. I even deep dived once on (horrors) quadraphonic!

 

[Doodski]

It's a good question but speakers are anything but digital, as in it either works or it doesn't. So in my mind the materials used, cones, spiders are candidates. The throw, the ability to move and cause sound millions of times is a non-trivial task when you get down to it.

Yes, all factual. The cones, coils and magnets should not deviate in tolerance from new in a short period of time like a month or a few. I suppose some of the cone/diaphragm materials might fracture microscopically due to use and even abuse but the selection of the materials is supposed to prevent this from occurring because the driver materials contributing to the frequency response is a bad thing and is supposed to be engineered out of the end product.

 

[Doodski]

I was in the Air Force so much of the good gear was available to me for cheap. TEAC reel to reels, Sansui, etc. I even deep dived once on (horrors) quadraphonic!

Well. Thanks for your service even if I am Canadian. The USA (Guessing you are from the USA.) is a major factor in our future and so it matters to me that you served. We are on the same page on near everything that matters most days. Quadraphonic is justtt a bit before my time. I justt missed that stuff.

 

[E-Lint]

Well. Thanks for your service even if I am Canadian. The USA (Guessing you are from the USA.) is a major factor in our future and so it matters to me that you served. We are on the same page on near everything that matters most days. Quadraphonic is justtt a bit before my time. I justt missed that stuff.

You didn't miss much. It was a dead end. Every time I see the latest (kidding) 15.3 system or some such advertised I just smile. I'll take my two in front, I'm the simple type. As far as service was concerned it was a privilege. I'd do it again if they'd let me. Of course I would have to be helped out to the plane .... Cheers sir.