Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[Cameron]

I own the RP-8000F, the big floorstanding brother of the RP-600M, as well as the DBR-62. From what I can gather, the RP-8000F is more neutral in its response than the RP-600M but I guess that there are still quite a few similarities between the two.

On the negative side, the Klipsch are a lot brighter than the Elacs, I personally like that but I know that I am in the minority on this. With the Klispch, the sound changes a fair bit as you move around in the room. I had to use a lot of toe in for the Klipsch to sound good. The stereo effect on this song was very cool with the Klipsch, and I can't really seem to be able to make the Elacs reproduce it (it feels flatter):

The Elacs in contrast are very easy to listen to, definitely a softer sound that I'm starting to grow accustomed to after listening to them for a while now. The soundscape in the room is a lot more even and they seem a lot more forgiving with where in the room they are placed.

Overall, I personally prefer the Elacs.

Thanks for that! Useful to have some comparison to larger floorstand speakers.

What are you driving them with?

 

[Honken]

Thanks for that! Useful to have some comparison to larger floorstand speakers.

What are you driving them with?

No problem.

It's all in my signature, the Hypex NC400.

Edit: For what it is worth, both speaker pairs get stupid loud with this amplifier.

 

[civi]

I have WXA-50 with the ELAC's and it gets so loud it hurts. Don't think you would need a new amp with the AXA35. Normal listening volumes use a couple watts at most.

At 6 ohm its quite possible yamaha is pushing more than 70wpc before clipping so it may not be great reference.

 

[Cameron]

At 6 ohm its quite possible yamaha is pushing more than 70wpc before clipping so it may not be great reference.

So 35 Wpc might be a little light?

 

[Cahudson42]

35 Wpc might be a little light?

Just a thought before you go spending upwards of $500 etc: If you watch the online thrift stores like Goodwill, on occasion Yamaha RX-596 (reviewed here by Amir) and the less powerful RX-396 will come up, and you can get them for about $40 and $20 respectfully. A cheap way to test Yamaha performance with your DBR62s..even if you decide w/o HDMI or room correction, it won't be your permanent setup.

My bedroom R162s are easily driven by an RX-396. And an Echo Input connected to CD gives me Amz Music just fine. No intention of replacing it. It's great.

 

[rvsixer]

I have WXA-50 with the ELAC's and it gets so loud it hurts. Don't think you would need a new amp with the AXA35. Normal listening volumes use a couple watts at most.

As Amir's first post indicated, with this speaker its not so much the power but the grunt an amp has:
"Impedance is high at about 8 ohms but the phase angle is quite acute at nearly 50 degrees. This means the speaker will ask for current when the output voltage is very low. So you better have a beefy amplifier to drive this speaker. "

 

[Cameron]

As Amir's first post indicated, with this speaker its not so much the power but the grunt an amp has:
"Impedance is high at about 8 ohms but the phase angle is quite acute at nearly 50 degrees. This means the speaker will ask for current when the output voltage is very low. So you better have a beefy amplifier to drive this speaker. "

Yes, clue was in the review ;-) I'll have a look at more efficient options, I'd like to find something that sounds good with 35W.

Just a thought before you go spending upwards of $500 etc: If you watch the online thrift stores like Goodwill, on occasion Yamaha RX-596 (reviewed here by Amir) and the less powerful RX-396 will come up, and you can get them for about $40 and $20 respectfully. A cheap way to test Yamaha performance with your DBR62s..even if you decide w/o HDMI or room correction, it won't be your permanent setup.

My bedroom R162s are easily driven by an RX-396. And an Echo Input connected to CD gives me Amz Music just fine. No intention of replacing it. It's great.

Low cost test amp in the RX-396/596, thanks for the recommendation. I'll see what's kicking around online.

 

[ZetZet]

Yes, clue was in the review ;-) I'll have a look at more efficient options, I'd like to find something that sounds good with 35W.



Low cost test amp in the RX-396/596, thanks for the recommendation. I'll see what's kicking around online.

Your AXA35 has more than 35w at 6 ohms. Also more dynamic power. So it will sound good. Amp power is rather overrated if you're not throwing a party.

 

[samj]

Note that the only EQ I used was for the 200 bass mode in my room.

Would somebody define 200 bass mode EQ for me. I bought a pair of these and I like them a lot. It's been 35 years since I've bought speakers. I'm using a Sony amp from Costco that only has bass and treble boost.

 

[rvsixer]

Would somebody define 200 bass mode EQ for me.

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/room-modes-101/ (just take the room mode calculator section as an exercise in academics, for real world modes do measurements in your own room using REW, etc.).

 

[sejarzo]

As Amir's first post indicated, with this speaker its not so much the power but the grunt an amp has:
"Impedance is high at about 8 ohms but the phase angle is quite acute at nearly 50 degrees. This means the speaker will ask for current when the output voltage is very low. So you better have a beefy amplifier to drive this speaker. "

I am unsure what that really means. As far as I know, there isn't an analogy between "grunt" in amplifiers and torque in motors or engines....in that diesel engines can have massive torque compared to a gasoline engine of similar displacement, but don't run at high rpm, so they are said to have "grunt" but not (horse)power.

Is there such a thing as a "non-beefy" amp that can deliver power????

If P = V * I, and V = I * R, then P = I^2 * R, correct? For a fixed impedance, that means the peak power an amp can deliver is directly dependent on the ability of the amp to deliver current.

Someone please disabuse me of my ignorance, if that's the case.

 

[rvsixer]

You guys are no fun , but you ARE right. High current capability ("beefy" as Amir referenced ).

I like grunt. I own a V8 diesel and an EV (max grunt at zero rpm lol).

 

[sonwowo]

I bought dbr 62 this time and believe in your subjective thank you so much

 

[boXem]

I am unsure what that really means. As far as I know, there isn't an analogy between "grunt" in amplifiers and torque in motors or engines....in that diesel engines can have massive torque compared to a gasoline engine of similar displacement, but don't run at high rpm, so they are said to have "grunt" but not (horse)power.

Is there such a thing as a "non-beefy" amp that can deliver power????

If P = V * I, and V = I * R, then P = I^2 * R, correct? For a fixed impedance, that means the peak power an amp can deliver is directly dependent on the ability of the amp to deliver current.

Someone please disabuse me of my ignorance, if that's the case.

No intent to disabuse you of anything
A speaker is not a variable resistor, it's a mix of resistance, inductance and capacitance.
u = Ri + Ldi/dt + Cint(i)
So there are some situations where a given u requires a lot of i.
For the amplifiers rating, it's done with a resistor. Pending the resistor, the limiting factor can be the voltage capability (P = U2/R) or the current capability (P = RI2). Usually ratings at 4 and 8 ohms show voltage capability, 2 ohms show current capability.

 

[sejarzo]

No intent to disabuse you of anything
... Usually ratings at 4 and 8 ohms show voltage capability, 2 ohms show current capability.

Understood. I should have posed my question a bit differently, perhaps...so....

Is there any commercially available amp output topology that can deliver high current into 2 ohms that is markedly deficient in delivering voltage to a 4 or 8 ohm load, that could thus be reasonably characterized as "beefy but not powerful"?

 

[boXem]

Understood. I should have posed my question a bit differently, perhaps...so....

Is there any commercially available amp output topology that can deliver high current into 2 ohms that is markedly deficient in delivering voltage to a 4 or 8 ohm load, that could thus be reasonably characterized as "beefy but not powerful"?

I would take the expression in the reverse way. No need to have a lot of volts, but ensure some amperes are available.
I am not aware of amplifiers delivering huge amounts of ampere without the corresponding volts, but I know a lot of amplifiers delivering reasonable amounts of volts and falling apart when amperes are requested.

 

[QMuse]

I am not aware of amplifiers delivering huge amounts of ampere without the corresponding volts, but I know a lot of amplifiers delivering reasonable amounts of volts and falling apart when amperes are requested.

THX amplifier certification standard requires amps to be able to deliver as much ampers at nominal power as needed assuming speaker impedance doesn't fall below 3Ohms (IIRC).

 

[boXem]

THX amplifier certification standard requires amps to be able to deliver as much ampers at nominal power as needed assuming speaker impedance doesn't fall below 3Ohms (IIRC).

The guys at Hypex and Purifi seem to have about the same criteria (3 Ohms) for their amplifiers (not counting beasts designed to deliver huge amounts of current like the NC1200.).

 

[solderdude]

Understood. I should have posed my question a bit differently, perhaps...so....

Is there any commercially available amp output topology that can deliver high current into 2 ohms that is markedly deficient in delivering voltage to a 4 or 8 ohm load, that could thus be reasonably characterized as "beefy but not powerful"?

Jotunheim R

 

[rvsixer]

Jotunheim R

How about a speaker amp (and with power measurements not just specs) ?