Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[Roland68]

Out of your list, I believe the R3 Meta is the best.


Note that speaking in percentages is very subjective and subject to error. But my experience trialing the ELAC DFR52 vs the Buchardt S400–another top speaker in that price range–tells me that moving to speakers in the $2k/pair range would get you a solid 35% improvement in sound quality.

The S400 MKII is another speaker I'd look into. Great measurements. I'd prefer it over the R3M due to a little wider directivity and better bass.

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First of all, thank you so much for the excellent expert recommendations.

I wasn't familiar with the Elac Debut Reference DFR52; it costs around €700 per pair here in Europe. However, it's not suitable for my room, or more precisely, my 14 m² room (at least I don't think so). I believe the DBR-62 would be better suited for a smaller room? I'm considering replacing it with the DFR52, then I wouldn't need the Elac RS500 subwoofer anymore. But I think that would be pointless.

The Buchardt S400 MKII costs €2800 here, which is too expensive for me. I'd like to stick with the KEF R3 Meta, which costs around €2000 per pair. But that's just a plan, and I'll probably stick with the R3 Meta. Does this mean that the R3 Meta is a good alternative to the DBR62 in the €2000 range and I don't need to speculate about other alternatives?

In a direct comparison, the DFR52s are significantly inferior to the DBR62s. I actually wonder how ELAC’s development team failed to notice this. Aside from the tweeter and the manufacturer, the two speakers don't have much in common.
It also doesn't surprise me that the difference compared to the Buchardt S400 is so pronounced. The gap between them and the DBR62s would likely be much smaller.
See also post #3086.

If you’d prefer to do without a subwoofer and opt for floor-standing speakers instead, I can recommend the Heco Aurora 700 or 700XT.

 

[Chromatischism]

In my experience preference score aligns with my own experience. It's basically saying that based on research people generally prefer one kind of frequency range (speaker and eq) over another if tested without seeing the speaker but only hearing them.

Based on preference score from 1 to 10, where 1 is poor and 10 is excellent, the elac dbr62 vs the buchard s400 vs the Kef R3 scores:

NO EQ
| Rank | Speaker | Score |
|_______|_______________|_______|
| 1 | KEF R3 | 6.46 |
| 2 | ELAC DBR62 | 5.56 |
| 3 | Buchardt S400 | 5.40 |

WITH EQ
| Rank | Speaker | Score |
|_______|_______________|_______|
| 1 | KEF R3 | 6.86 |
| 2 | Buchardt S400 | 6.73 |
| 3 | ELAC DBR62 | 5.82 |

WITH SUB
| Rank | Speaker | Score |
|_______|_______________|_______|
| 1 | KEF R3 | 8.27 |
| 2 | ELAC DBR62 | 7.76 |
| 3 | Buchardt S400 | 7.59 |

SUB + EQ
| Rank | Speaker | Score |
|_______|_______________|_______|
| 1 | Buchardt S400 | 8.54 |
| 2 | KEF R3 | 8.52 |
| 3 | ELAC DBR62 | 7.89 |

(Spinoramama.org)

Basically what you can get from this data, is that adding a sub really matters a lot: on average + 2 points.
For that to work you need a crossover and eq.

Comparing elac dbr62 and buchard on their own merits (without sub and eq) there is only a marginal difference of 5.56/5.40= 3% in favour of the elac. And with eq 6.73/5.82 = 15% in favour of the buchard. With sub there is a 7.76/5.56= 40% increase for the elac.

This imo really shows you what matters. That's why I would recommend to keep your speakers, integrate the sub properly with a crossover and eq and experiment a bit with measuring to get a real improvements and a good perception of what matters.

Thanks for putting this data together. Did you use the R3 Meta and S400 MKII?

But since I've had both a Debut Reference and S400 in my room together with and without subs (A/B test), I can say that while the Debut Reference is a good line of speakers, you would never choose it in this matchup in real life. You can clearly hear a difference in the refinement of the mids and highs. This is one of those things that you wouldn't know until you heard them side by side (which is why comparisons can by dangerous to your wallet ).

It may be one of the best speakers under $1k, but they could not charge more for it considering what else is available.

 

[DeadAndCompany]

Thanks for putting this data together. Did you use the R3 Meta and S400 MKII?

But since I've had both a Debut Reference and S400 in my room together with and without subs (A/B test), I can say that while the Debut Reference is a good line of speakers, you would never choose it in this matchup in real life. You can clearly hear a difference in the refinement of the mids and highs. This is one of those things that you wouldn't know until you heard them side by side (which is why comparisons can by dangerous to your wallet ).

It may be one of the best speakers under $1k, but they could not charge more for it considering what else is available.

So you argue that your subjective optioning is more important than the preference score. Let‘s stop measuring this stuff, huh?
Nevertheless you say the Buchardt would be 35% better than the DBR62. Which scale are you using? The measurements tell us the opposite.
BTW: How much did YOUR room influence your subjective opinion on these speakers? Give us an accurate percentage, please!

 

[Chromatischism]

First of all, thank you so much for the excellent expert recommendations.

I wasn't familiar with the Elac Debut Reference DFR52; it costs around €700 per pair here in Europe. However, it's not suitable for my room, or more precisely, my 14 m² room (at least I don't think so). I believe the DBR-62 would be better suited for a smaller room? I'm considering replacing it with the DFR52, then I wouldn't need the Elac RS500 subwoofer anymore. But I think that would be pointless.

The Buchardt S400 MKII costs €2800 here, which is too expensive for me. I'd like to stick with the KEF R3 Meta, which costs around €2000 per pair. But that's just a plan, and I'll probably stick with the R3 Meta. Does this mean that the R3 Meta is a good alternative to the DBR62 in the €2000 range and I don't need to speculate about other alternatives?

I'm surprised to hear that considering the Buchardts ship from Denmark. But KEF also has good distribution in the EU.

The R3M is probably better for your budget, but there are other options. Audio First Fidelia comes to mind. You can save some money if you can assemble them yourself.

 

[Chromatischism]

So you argue that your subjective optioning is more important than the preference score. Let‘s stop measuring this stuff, huh?

The preference score was never meant to be used the way it is currently being used.

 

[Roland68]

So you argue that your subjective optioning is more important than the preference score. Let‘s stop measuring this stuff, huh?
Nevertheless you say the Buchardt would be 35% better than the DBR62. Which scale are you using? The measurements tell us the opposite.
BTW: How much did YOUR room influence your subjective opinion on these speakers? Give us an accurate percentage, please!

@Chromatischism doesn't actually have any measurements or a preference score for the DFR52. By "Debut Reference," he isn't referring to the DBR62, but rather the DFR52—the floor-standing speakers in the series.

Note that speaking in percentages is very subjective and subject to error. But my experience trialing the ELAC DFR52 vs the Buchardt S400–another top speaker in that price range–tells me that moving to speakers in the $2k/pair range would get you a solid 35% improvement in sound quality.

 

[djdragon66]

I'm surprised to hear that considering the Buchardts ship from Denmark. But KEF also has good distribution in the EU.

The R3M is probably better for your budget, but there are other options. Audio First Fidelia comes to mind. You can save some money if you can assemble them yourself.

Thank you for your recommendations. I'm happy to hear your opinions. This is about my DBR62 speakers, my Yamaha RN800A amplifier, and my Elac RS500 subwoofer. My question is, what do I need to replace them with to hear a noticeable difference?

Thank you again for your recommendations. By the way, I received my Cambridge Audio CXN100 SE yesterday. I think I'll keep it. Before that, I tested an Eversolo DMP-A6 Gen 2, a Wiim Ultra, and a Cambridge AXN100. The Eversolo is good, but in my opinion, overloaded with too many components. Due to potential power supply issues and the fact that it's a product entirely developed in China, I didn't dare buy it and returned it. The Cambridge Audio is somehow simpler and great; you can trust them.

 

[Doenerkunde]

Going from DBR62 to the R3 Meta will be an upgrade, but once there, you are hitting the point of diminishing returns.

Sorry, but as an economist I have to clear up some misunderstandings about the concept. The step from the DBR62 to the R3 Meta is WAY past the point of diminishing returns.

You can conceptualise it as follows: "If I raise the price by a factor of X, by what factor does the sound quality increase? If the sound quality increases by less than the factor of X you are past the point of diminishing returns."

The Elac DBR62 has a MSRP of 799$/598€ (and in europe has a street price far below this. I paid 226€ for my pair). The KEF R3 Meta has a MSRP of 2.499$/2.400€.

The KEF R3 Meta costs more by a factor of 3-4. But the sound quality does not increase 3-4 fold. Hence we are past the point of diminishing returns.

 

[thewas]

While I agree with you on your above analysis the question remains how do we quantify sound quality, for example just from my own subjective feeling already a 50€ loudspeaker with a +-3 dB response in a range between 100-10000 Hz won't be bettered by anything costing 2 or more times more as much proportionally so the point of diminishing return is already reached there unless we talk about high distance/SPL requirements?

 

[djdragon66]

I'm surprised to hear that considering the Buchardts ship from Denmark. But KEF also has good distribution in the EU.

The R3M is probably better for your budget, but there are other options. Audio First Fidelia comes to mind. You can save some money if you can assemble them yourself.

Sorry, Buchard, but you can get it for around €2000 in Europe. https://buchardtaudio.com/products/s400-mkii-b-stock Is the KEF R3M better, or the Buchard?

 

[djdragon66]

The KEF R3 Meta costs more by a factor of 3-4. But the sound quality does not increase 3-4 fold. Hence we are past the point of diminishing returns.

By what percentage will the sound quality improve compared to DBR62?

 

[Chromatischism]

Sorry, Buchard, but you can get it for around €2000 in Europe. https://buchardtaudio.com/products/s400-mkii-b-stock Is the KEF R3M better, or the Buchard?

I would take the S400 MKII over the KEF.

 

[MarkS]

By what percentage will the sound quality improve compared to DBR62?

No one can answer this for you. The only way to find out is to buy the KEF R3s (with return privileges) and try them out in your room with your preferred music at your preferred volume levels.

 

[tw 2022]

By what percentage will the sound quality improve compared to DBR62?

they don't necessarily sound better... that's subjective...they do measure a bit better..

 

[Ropeburn]

In a direct comparison, the DFR52s are significantly inferior to the DBR62s. I actually wonder how ELAC’s development team failed to notice this. Aside from the tweeter and the manufacturer, the two speakers don't have much in common.
It also doesn't surprise me that the difference compared to the Buchardt S400 is so pronounced. The gap between them and the DBR62s would likely be much smaller.
See also post #3086.

If you’d prefer to do without a subwoofer and opt for floor-standing speakers instead, I can recommend the Heco Aurora 700 or 700XT.

Would recommend the 700 over the XT. The latter are allegedly upgraded ever so slightly but I haven't seen how. Specs and optics are identical. Anyway the differences just can't be big.

From bang for buck point of view, XT isn't available cheaper than 550€ each, while the discontinued 700 are still available for as low as 650-700 the pair. With a lot of nice colour options the XT doesn't offer (yet).

 

[pdfield34]

The Elacs and the Kef R3s both measure well, so I think a lot of folks here are saying "don't expect too much better."

Is a small but noticeable (and very enjoyable) up tick in imaging and perhaps instrument separation (compare the horizontal dispersion for the Kefs vs Elacs) worthwhile? Then the Kefs are it.

Because of top of the line imaging, I enjoy very much listening to orchestral works on the Kefs.

I am also super happy that I own and am able to listen to such gems as the Elacs (for the low price of b-stock demo $400).

I will note that the Elacs, to me, sound more relaxed and forgiving, but that is all subjective and could be all in the mind.

 

[PoorAudioGuy]

295€ NEW from this German shop. they ship EU wide:

horch-und-guck.de

 

[TonyJZX]

wowow absolutely fantastic price

le me put it like this... in my country where euro goods are considered 'high end' you can almost buy THREE pairs of DBR62 for this price

alas:

International shipping​

• EU countries: conditions vary – exact costs & times at checkout.
• Non-EU: no shipping.
• Switzerland: no shipping.

free DE ship, EU comes at additional charge

Swiss? NEIN

ROW? NEIN

 

[FLS3]

I wish we could get them at even the intro price here. They've increased in price 60% since intro, outpacing CPI significantly.

 

[PacketofCrisps]

I'm thinking of trying these to compare to my B&W 706s3, now don't get me wrong I really like the sound of the B&Ws, but I'm intrigued to know how they would compare to a speaker that measures objectively better and see if that transfers to a subjective preference also, I can get the DBR62s really cheap second hand locally.

Can a speaker of this price really provide the same resolution and detail as much more expensive speakers?

Google AI says stepping up to more expensive speaker provide you with more "Enhanced Detail and Clarity", I mean I guess this is the whole 'driver story' debate, do more expensive drivers provide more information? or is it just down to the tuning/FR?