Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[delta76]

Those are good points. I am not knowledgeable about how to use EQ though. So the best case for me would be to have speakers, that I like from the start. I think I am probably a fairly average user/listener. So in this case a bunch of people telling me that they preferred the Dali, because of XYZ, makes it more likely that I will also like them from the start. It's just statistics: considering the opinions of many people will bring you closer to the population's mean opinion. Of course if I'm far away from the mean it doesn't help me at all. Anyways, I get all your points, they are well taken and part of my decision, but I do not agree that opinions are irrelevant and should not be considered at all.
Edit: I am also fully aware that this might be an unpopular opinion in a forum called "audio science review"

The curve of frequency response is actually result from researches. Researchers accepted that music is a personal taste, and they found something that is, statistically speaking, preferred by more people. So if you take two speakers that one is measured great and one badly, play in same room, same setup, same music, under a blind (so avoid biases) then more people will prefer the better one. Of course there are people who prefer warm sound, bright sound etc., but that is the statistics. You don't have to ask for people opinions, because researchers and Amir already have done that for you

 

[Mort]

If, for example, the measurements say that the ELAC are better on paper, but 10 people tell me they prefered the sound of the Dali, I would chose the DALI without hesitation.

If those were blind ABX tests and 10 out of 10 had the same result. I would too. The thing is, that's not what would happen.

 

[Roland68]

Did you test them side by side? How about soundstage? I've found very little material online comparing them directly, but some I found mention the wider stage of the Oberon 3 compared to the ELAC? I did wonder as well how the 2kg difference might affect the sound and overall quality. I also read somewhere that the DALI might be a bit tiring to listen too, but I wonder how relevant this actually is in a real world setting, where I rarely listen to more than 1-2 hours uninterrupted.

Yes, a friend wanted to buy the Dali speakers and compare them to my DBR62s beforehand. His reason for choosing the Dali was apparently that he didn't want a speaker as common as the DBR62, but rather something more special.
But that changed after the comparison, which favored the DBR62. Mechanically, the DBR62 is significantly better quality and more robust, in my opinion.
With Dali, I sometimes get the feeling that you have to go at least one speaker class higher to get something comparable. I would compare them more to the Debut 62.

Soundstage? I've listened to and compared several hundred speakers in my life, and in my experience, the so-called soundstage is never a problem with a reasonably well-designed speaker. It depends on the room, the speaker placement, the accuracy/crosstalk of the components, and the music itself.
That's precisely why it's not a very meaningful indicator.

 

[JonRdgZ]

The curve of frequency response is actually result from researches. Researchers accepted that music is a personal taste, and they found something that is, statistically speaking, preferred by more people. So if you take two speakers that one is measured great and one badly, play in same room, same setup, same music, under a blind (so avoid biases) then more people will prefer the better one. Of course there are people who prefer warm sound, bright sound etc., but that is the statistics. You don't have to ask for people opinions, because researchers and Amir already have done that for you

Thank you for the detailed response, that is very interesting. Could you maybe point me to a couple of relevant papers?

Yes, a friend wanted to buy the Dali speakers and compare them to my DBR62s beforehand. His reason for choosing the Dali was apparently that he didn't want a speaker as common as the DBR62, but rather something more special.
But that changed after the comparison, which favored the DBR62. Mechanically, the DBR62 is significantly better quality and more robust, in my opinion.
With Dali, I sometimes get the feeling that you have to go at least one speaker class higher to get something comparable. I would compare them more to the Debut 62.

Soundstage? I've listened to and compared several hundred speakers in my life, and in my experience, the so-called soundstage is never a problem with a reasonably well-designed speaker. It depends on the room, the speaker placement, the accuracy/crosstalk of the components, and the music itself.
That's precisely why it's not a very meaningful indicator.

Thanks for those clarifications as well.

As a total newbie, all the responses I got are incredibly useful for adding context. It's very easy to get distracted by all the noise online, reading through reviews of which most are not standardized, many are sponsored and some are just fanboy opinions.

 

[delta76]

Thank you for the detailed response, that is very interesting. Could you maybe point me to a couple of relevant papers?


Thanks for those clarifications as well.

As a total newbie, all the responses I got are incredibly useful for adding context. It's very easy to get distracted by all the noise online, reading through reviews of which most are not standardized, many are sponsored and some are just fanboy opinions.

For a start https://www.dirac.com/resources/target-curve
the topic can be incredibly complex, and if you want to, buy the book from Dr Floyd Toole (he's on this forum too).
For a very beginning level, I started with pref score. If pref score difference is >1 then it means statistically significant that people will prefer the one with higher score. It's an oversimplified tool because speaker measurements are much more than that, but for a start, it's not bad.

 

[stefanovesa]

Hello,
in Amir review I read:

"However, note the area I have circled. Impedance is high at about 8 ohms but the phase angle is quite acute at nearly 50 degrees. This means the speaker will ask for current when the output voltage is very low. So you better have a beefy amplifier to drive this speaker"

Can you help me to better understand that, perhaps with some example?

I own these speakers and driving it with Topping LA-90 discrete at 70-80 dbA but subjectively something is missing, as if the amp was struggling to drive them

Thanks!

 

[Roland68]

Hello,
in Amir review I read:

"However, note the area I have circled. Impedance is high at about 8 ohms but the phase angle is quite acute at nearly 50 degrees. This means the speaker will ask for current when the output voltage is very low. So you better have a beefy amplifier to drive this speaker"

Can you help me to better understand that, perhaps with some example?

I own these speakers and driving it with Topping LA-90 discrete at 70-80 dbA but subjectively something is missing, as if the amp was struggling to drive them

Thanks!

That depends heavily on the circumstances.
Room size, whether it's heavily damped or not, listening distance to the speakers, distance of the speakers to the back wall, etc.
And it's actually possible that the amplifier doesn't have enough power.

But you can easily test that yourself.
Connect only one speaker and listen.
Then put the amplifier into bridged mode and do the same thing again. The amplifier will now have almost four times the power.
You should use your smartphone and a dB app to check as precisely as possible that the volume levels are as even as possible.

 

[JonRdgZ]

For a start https://www.dirac.com/resources/target-curve
the topic can be incredibly complex, and if you want to, buy the book from Dr Floyd Toole (he's on this forum too).
For a very beginning level, I started with pref score. If pref score difference is >1 then it means statistically significant that people will prefer the one with higher score. It's an oversimplified tool because speaker measurements are much more than that, but for a start, it's not bad.

@Opalius btw posted some measurements here for the Dali Oberon 3, in case you are interested

 

[delta76]

@Opalius btw posted some measurements here for the Dali Oberon 3, in case you are interested

It seems to be in room measurements, which even if we ignore mic quality, will be affected by room reflection, speaker placement etc. It is better than nothing yes but then you are comparing two speakers in that room.
Measurements need to be taken in anechoic chamber or even better, NFS, to be room independent

 

[JonRdgZ]

It seems to be in room measurements, which even if we ignore mic quality, will be affected by room reflection, speaker placement etc. It is better than nothing yes but then you are comparing two speakers in that room.
Measurements need to be taken in anechoic chamber or even better, NFS, to be room independent

Yes that makes sense, my room obviously will not be the same at all.

Anyone has some insights into the Elac bs 204.2? Compared to the dbr62. They seem to use the Jet tweeter which seems to be situated higher than the tweeter in the dbr62

 

[delta76]

Yes that makes sense, my room obviously will not be the same at all.

Anyone has some insights into the Elac bs 204.2? Compared to the dbr62. They seem to use the Jet tweeter which seems to be situated higher than the tweeter in the dbr62

you might consider this https://csmusiksysteme.net/Lautspre...Elac-Debut-Reference-DBR62-Stueck-B-Ware.html
they ship to most of EU with reasonable shipping cost. this is likely an return/open box.
Buy a good measured speaker and don't have to worry

Forgot to give credit to @Ropeburn who posted the link

 

[Roland68]

Yes that makes sense, my room obviously will not be the same at all.

Anyone has some insights into the Elac bs 204.2? Compared to the dbr62. They seem to use the Jet tweeter which seems to be situated higher than the tweeter in the dbr62

The Elac BS 204.2 won't compare to the DBR62. Aside from the fact that it's about 20 years old, I wasn't impressed when I heard it. The JET tweeter and the aluminum bass/midrange driver are, of course, also somewhat outdated in terms of design.
The tweeter isn't positioned higher than in the DBR62; in fact, it's lower overall because the BS 204.2 is smaller.

If you're looking for something with a JET tweeter, you could take a look at the Carina BS 243.4. It's very similar to the DBR62; I know this because I own both.
Alternatively, I can also recommend the four Vela 403/404 1.0/2.0 speakers, which also feature a JET tweeter.

 

[Doenerkunde]

If you're looking for something with a JET tweeter, you could take a look at the Carina BS 243.4.

The Carina does not employ a german made JET tweeter, but some chinese made AMT derivative ("folded according to the JET principle").

 

[staticV3]

@Opalius btw posted some measurements here for the Dali Oberon 3, in case you are interested

Rather useless with the ordinate scale and legend cut off

 

[MarkS]

"line markings on the graph are 10 dB"

 

[Triliza]

Hidden audio (Germany) has them for about 197 euro each, so about 400 for a pair. Add to that the shipping costs.

https://hidden-audio.de/product/elac-debut-reference-b6-2-stueckpreis-regallautsprecher-1017344/

 

[tim5]

Ι have allready a pair elac debut 6.2.How is these speaker like center for home cinema?

 

[delta76]

Ι have allready a pair elac debut 6.2.How is these speaker like center for home cinema?

They will be fine but might be not loud enough if your room is big. Good speakers are good speakers either for music or movies. They might do fine as surrounds

 

[JonRdgZ]

Hidden audio (Germany) has them for about 197 euro each, so about 400 for a pair. Add to that the shipping costs.

https://hidden-audio.de/product/elac-debut-reference-b6-2-stueckpreis-regallautsprecher-1017344/

I bought exactly those and they sound incredible. They are not even set up on a shelf or stand yet, or anywhere close to being in optimal position, just standing on the floor atm. But already I’ve been sitting in front of them for hours, listening. Can’t wait to set them up properly. Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[NanoGuidingStar]

I use DBR62 as my Back Surround Speakers in 7.2.2ch system. I put them close to the back wall, with room gain+boundry gain the bass extension on these speakers are crazy.