Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[Roland68]

To quote Amir‘s review: „At extremely high levels (ear bleeding) I could hear some resonances but back off a bit and you were invited to incredible performance.“

He probably wasn't referring to the resonances emitted by the cabinet itself, but rather to the resonances of the drivers in general.
It would be extremely unusual and unlikely for resonances from such a small cabinet to be actually audible/perceptible.

 

[DeadAndCompany]

He probably wasn't referring to the resonances emitted by the cabinet itself, but rather to the resonances of the drivers in general.
It would be extremely unusual and unlikely for resonances from such a small cabinet to be actually audible/perceptible.

Well, it‘s all in the review: „On the right is our woofer/port. On the left is the back of the speaker. So it looks like the back is resonating and causing interference pattern with the front wave.“

 

[Cantrememberpassword]

I recently update my amp to accuphase E-280, now my DBR62 sounds really great, with a bit EQ makes it even better.

 

[delta76]

I recently update my amp to accuphase E-280, now my DBR62 sounds really great, with a bit EQ makes it even better.

what was your previous amp?
"upgrading amp" is usually a waste of money. Especially to an expensive one as your accuphase. A Purifi based amp would save you a lot of money and probably works better
sorry to be blunt, but it has to be said. Save the money and upgrade your speakers instead (DBR62 is a great speaker for the price, but there are better speakers), than upgrading the amp.

 

[wyup]

what was your previous amp?
"upgrading amp" is usually a waste of money. Especially to an expensive one as your accuphase. A Purifi based amp would save you a lot of money and probably works better
sorry to be blunt, but it has to be said. Save the money and upgrade your speakers instead (DBR62 is a great speaker for the price, but there are better speakers), than upgrading the amp.

I disagree. Regardless of the price of the amp, the fact that the DBR62 significantly improves its sound quality proves that the speaker has a grow potential and needs good quality amplification to shine.

As for the resonances, it's easy to improve: add absorbtion and anti-resonance pads to the bare speaker panels: sides, up and back. It is expected that at this price manufacturer skimp on this, and the performance of this speaker justifies it.

 

[delta76]

I disagree. Regardless of the price of the amp, the fact that the DBR62 significantly improves its sound quality proves that the speaker has a grow potential and needs good quality amplification to shine.

As for the resonances, it's easy to improve: add absorbtion and anti-resonance pads to the bare speaker panels: sides, up and back. It is expected that at this price manufacturer skimp on this, and the performance of this speaker justifies it.

What is the fact? Who proved it? Based on what measurements?
@amirm drives speakers with his McIntosh which is much more expensive than Accuphase (and of course has more clean power), do you think he did not see its full potential???

 

[wyup]

It's us, the users that prove the product potential and performance with our real equipment. We wouldn't have to buy a McIntosh to obtain the expected performance out of a much more affordable speaker, otherwise there is a problem.

 

[delta76]

It's us, the users that prove the product potential and performance with our real equipment. We wouldn't have to buy a McIntosh to obtain the expected performance out of a much more affordable speaker, otherwise there is a problem.

Then it is your opinion, not fact. And when it comes to audio the opinion is almost always biased.

McIntosh is too much but accuphase is OK? Where to draw the line? I am not saying upgrading amp is a total waste of money. There are cases when upgrading amp is needed, but only when your amp is obviously underpowered or flawed. AND there are a bunch of good amps that are much cheaper yet outperform E280. With price of E280 alone you can buy a new good amp and a better pair of speaker.
DBR62 is a great speaker under $1000/pair but many speakers under $2000 will outperform it.

 

[wyup]

It's not my opinion, it's our observations as users with our equipment that corroborate the review. We don't need to run labs to state them. Our observations can't all be biased.

We don't have to spend on an Accuphase or a McIntosh to obtain a expected performance with the DBR62, or even other speakers.

Just one more experience that a more powerful and better quality amplifier scales to the expected performance with this speaker, that other price appropriate one may be far to yield.

 

[delta76]

It's not my opinion, it's our observations as users with our equipment that corroborate the review. We don't need to run labs to state them. Our observations can't all be biased.

We don't have to spend on an Accuphase or a McIntosh to obtain a expected performance with the DBR62, or even other speakers.

Just one more experience that a more powerful and better quality amplifier scales to the expected performance with this speaker, that other price appropriate one may be far to yield.

until proved by measurements it's just opinions. it is a common misconception that an amp will improve sound significantly. it is, in most cases, you just play it louder and perceive it as "sounds better"

as I said, upgrading amp is not necessary in most cases. "Upgrading" to Accuphase E280 is, a very like waste of money because there are better amps that are cheaper, and that money can be spent on an objectively better speaker.

If you want to improve the sound, this is the list of things you can try before thinking about upgrading your amp
- Apply EQ
- Speaker placement
- Room correction
- Room treatment
- Add a sub
- Upgrade/side-grade to a speaker that works better in your room.

 

[anli]

Our observations can't all be biased.

Our (and my "our" isn't your "our") observations can't all be biased, and it insists you are wrong.

If to be serious.
One of the most interesting idea I have met (and it is stated to be a neurobiological fact) is this one:

- almost always perception process is started by brain
- from the beginning it already contains some expectations
- feelings supply some information
- but brain automatically detects just a delta between the expectations and the information
- this delta could be taken into account to modify brain's model of the world ("reality", including ourselves)
- this delta could be ignored

I haven't met a situation this model isn't able to clarify.
Don't think about all these things too long: you will inevitably conclude we live in a world of illusions.
We do.

Resuming: anybody observation is always biased.

 

[wyup]

it is, in most cases, you just play it louder and perceive it as "sounds better"

Do you think we are so gullible or deaf not to distinguish between different ampifiers? According to you, measurement labs are the only truth, everthing else is bias.
Any amplifier or speaker has its sound character. You can't infer it from measurements. Even your perfect Purifi can have a lean, analytical sound, however good it measures. Music is not a sinewave or a 32-tone sample. And we audiophiles can detect those differences easily on the ear. It's not brain, bias or delta expectation. I'm not going to start an argument about this on this forum. This is my last stance.

 

[delta76]

Do you think we are so gullible or deaf not to distinguish between different ampifiers? According to you, measurement labs are the only truth, everthing else is bias.
Any amplifier or speaker has its sound character. You can't infer it from measurements. Even your perfect Purifi can have a lean, analytical sound, however good it measures. Music is not a sinewave or a 32-tone sample. And we audiophiles can detect those differences easily on the ear. It's not brain, bias or delta expectation. I'm not going to start an argument about this on this forum. This is my last stance.

You just said every argument subjective audiophiles have. It is not measurable. It is your ears that matter. Clean amp is analytical. Blah blah blah
It seems you have been on this forum for a long time. After all those years if you haven't changed your mind, I will not try to. But also don't spread subjective misinformation.

 

[JonRdgZ]

Does anyone have any insight or direct comparison of the ELAC with the Dali Oberon 3? I bought some ELACs in a sale but my order got canceled so now I'm thinking of getting the Dali, because I can get them used for the same price as the ELAC. I'm planning on using them mainly for music, but also some movies. They will be placed relatively close to the wall (15-20cm), which may favor the ELACs front bass opening? I also move around a fair bit while listening to music. I don't have the possibility to listen to them before, the DALI are sold out in the shops in my area, only available on the second hand market or online.

 

[Roland68]

Does anyone have any insight or direct comparison of the ELAC with the Dali Oberon 3? I bought some ELACs in a sale but my order got canceled so now I'm thinking of getting the Dali, because I can get them used for the same price as the ELAC. I'm planning on using them mainly for music, but also some movies. They will be placed relatively close to the wall (15-20cm), which may favor the ELACs front bass opening? I also move around a fair bit while listening to music. I don't have the possibility to listen to them before, the DALI are sold out in the shops in my area, only available on the second hand market or online.

The Dali Oberon 3 is also fun to listen to, but it's not quite as detailed as the DBR62, and the bass isn't as clean and precise either.
I also noticed the significant weight difference when setting it up. Although the DBR62 is the same size, or slightly smaller, it's 2 kg heavier. That's a lot more wood for stability and more magnet material for the bass driver in such a small speaker.

In a video of a disassembled Dali Oberon 3, you can see that the cabinet material and the front panel are very thin.

 

[JonRdgZ]

The Dali Oberon 3 is also fun to listen to, but it's not quite as detailed as the DBR62, and the bass isn't as clean and precise either.
I also noticed the significant weight difference when setting it up. Although the DBR62 is the same size, or slightly smaller, it's 2 kg heavier. That's a lot more wood for stability and more magnet material for the bass driver in such a small speaker.

In a video of a disassembled Dali Oberon 3, you can see that the cabinet material and the front panel are very thin.

Did you test them side by side? How about soundstage? I've found very little material online comparing them directly, but some I found mention the wider stage of the Oberon 3 compared to the ELAC? I did wonder as well how the 2kg difference might affect the sound and overall quality. I also read somewhere that the DALI might be a bit tiring to listen too, but I wonder how relevant this actually is in a real world setting, where I rarely listen to more than 1-2 hours uninterrupted.

 

[delta76]

Does anyone have any insight or direct comparison of the ELAC with the Dali Oberon 3? I bought some ELACs in a sale but my order got canceled so now I'm thinking of getting the Dali, because I can get them used for the same price as the ELAC. I'm planning on using them mainly for music, but also some movies. They will be placed relatively close to the wall (15-20cm), which may favor the ELACs front bass opening? I also move around a fair bit while listening to music. I don't have the possibility to listen to them before, the DALI are sold out in the shops in my area, only available on the second hand market or online.

without measurements you can't say anything for sure (it's all subjective). But other Dali speakers measured did not fare very well.
Are you in EU? DBR62 should be popular in shops and frequently discounted

 

[JonRdgZ]

without measurements you can't say anything for sure (it's all subjective). But other Dali speakers measured did not fare very well.
Are you in EU? DBR62 should be popular in shops and frequently discounted

Sure measurements are great, but in the end it's people listening to music and not microphones and measurement instruments. So I do think there is a lot of value in subjective impressions and opinions. If, for example, the measurements say that the ELAC are better on paper, but 10 people tell me they prefered the sound of the Dali, I would chose the DALI without hesitation.
That said, I had a great deal for the ELAC (in Europe yes), but my order got canceled. Probably too good of a deal .

 

[delta76]

Sure measurements are great, but in the end it's people listening to music and not microphones and measurement instruments. So I do think there is a lot of value in subjective impressions and opinions. If, for example, the measurements say that the ELAC are better on paper, but 10 people tell me they prefered the sound of the Dali, I would chose the DALI without hesitation.
That said, I had a great deal for the ELAC (in Europe yes), but my order got canceled. Probably too good of a deal .

The problem is you were asking for opinions, and that varies a lot by people, the room, the music they listen to, and in many cases those do not apply to you. Measurements take those out of questions and you can always EQ to your taste. Better measured speakers are usually easier to EQ as there are things EQ can't fix, like directivity.

 

[JonRdgZ]

The problem is you were asking for opinions, and that varies a lot by people, the room, the music they listen to, and in many cases those do not apply to you. Measurements take those out of questions and you can always EQ to your taste. Better measured speakers are usually easier to EQ as there are things EQ can't fix, like directivity.

Those are good points. I am not knowledgeable about how to use EQ though. So the best case for me would be to have speakers, that I like from the start. I think I am probably a fairly average user/listener. So in this case a bunch of people telling me that they preferred the Dali, because of XYZ, makes it more likely that I will also like them from the start. It's just statistics: considering the opinions of many people will bring you closer to the population's mean opinion. Of course if I'm far away from the mean it doesn't help me at all. Anyways, I get all your points, they are well taken and part of my decision, but I do not agree that opinions are irrelevant and should not be considered at all.
Edit: I am also fully aware that this might be an unpopular opinion in a forum called "audio science review"