Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[LTig]

Control of a speaker is not measured in total dB SPL, that's ridiculous. It may sound loud and bad.

Control of the speaker depends on the output impedance of the amp, the lesser the better. Tube amps are rather lousy in this respect, as are audiophool power amps without global negative feedback. Class D power amps may only have a slight disadvantage if the output filter is outside of the feedback loop, but this is at high frequencies, not a lows.

 

[Philipp]

Do you expect 100$ amplifiers to perform with not easy load speakers such as these?

Do not believe everything you think.

 

[wyup]

Do not believe everything you think.

I believe what I experience first hand: if a 400$ Hypex NC122MP based class D don't drive this speaker well enough, I have reason to believe that a chip based 129$ won't either, however many watts they announce. I may be wrong, but money usually is a fair indicator. In audio nobody gives you gold for pennies and you pay for performance.

 

[LTig]

I may be wrong, but money usually is a fair indicator. In audio nobody gives you gold for pennies and you pay for performance.

If anything then the reviews at ASR have proven again and again that there is no relation between price and sound quality. So I fear you are wrong.

 

[wyup]

If anything then the reviews at ASR have proven again and again that there is no relation between price and sound quality. So I fear you are wrong.

Sound quality is subjective. Measurements may be not. Measurements don't tell all the story.

 

[Guddu]

Sound quality is subjective. Measurements may be not. Measurements don't tell all the story.

I will have to agree, You are right.....
Measurements tell the facts, at least! That's why you are on ASR and so do others.

PS. I can understand you did not like it.... which is totally fine.... but making it general assumption or a conclusion for everyone isn't cool.

 

[Philipp]

you pay for performance

Well, if that statement is true, we finally found the solution. If you would have exchaged your stock power cord of the Hypex vs. a 10.000 € snakeoil power cord, the sound would have been much cleaner, that‘s for sure. ;-)

 

[tw 2022]

Sound quality is subjective. Measurements may be not. Measurements don't tell all the story.

measurements give the ability to **eliminate** certain buying options without having to demo and waste time:***if you know what you like and can read the data***.... every "data doesn't matter" guy i've ever talked to disregards this ( this is not a claim that you are included in that group) ... data isn't about "choosing".. it isn't the holy grail of "what to get" and never has been claimed to be by proponents with cognitive abilities...

 

[celroid]

I think we should create a new thread with a library of EQ settings based on the measurements and confirmation by ear by me. I don't want to hold up the reviews for them though. So feel free to post the EQ you want me to try and I will see if I can test them before shipping the units back.

Alternatively, I could try it if we can automated the process.

Without measuerements I believe It's up to the user's subjective opinion whether any of the PEQ configurations posted in this thread improves the sound or worsens it. That makes me reluctant to just set one and forget.

It would be great to have measuerements with Klippel NFS of loudspeakers after some PEQ are applied like some of the ones spread around here (or your personal PEQ). But trying to think realistically it wouldn't make sense in terms of the additional time it would take, so that makes this impossible. I understand it's more important to have the out of the box measurements of additional speakers rather than revisiting older ones.

If there were a lot of people with Klippel NFS devices and free time though it might be possible, but that sounds like another pipe dream.

 

[Philipp]

It would be great to have measuerements with Klippel NFS of loudspeakers after some PEQ

The listening room with it’s room modes and the listening position in that room are taken into acount when you eq a speaker to YOUR liking in your specific room / position.

Based on the speakers linearity it is more or less possible to attempt eq to correct the frequency response (in your room).

 

[staticV3]

It would be great to have measuerements with Klippel NFS of loudspeakers after some PEQ are applied

The post-EQ frequency response of loudspeakers is entirely deterministic, so there's no point in measuring that.

 

[celroid]

The listening room with it’s room modes and the listening position in that room are taken into acount when you eq a speaker to YOUR liking in your specific room / position.

Based on the speakers linearity it is more or less possible to attempt eq to correct the frequency response (in your room).

Quoting amir here

the typical home environment, the transition frequency is in the 200 to 400 Hz. Below this range, namely the tones that define the bass and impact of movies and music, the room heavily influences the output of the speaker as you will see shortly. Above the transition frequency, the speaker literally sets the tone. In transition area, both the speaker and room matter.

I'd be interested in measurements with PEQ above the transition area only, unaffected by the room. If I'm not mistaken that's also exactly where DBR-62 has issues e.g. resonances at around 600 Hz.

 

[louwii]

These would have been the perfect speakers for me if they had a proper waveguide and narrower directivity. The DBR62 have a wide and somewhat irregular dispersion. Unless in a heavily treated room, I find them a little too bright and low clarity because of the reflections.
The same for the DBR63, they are very similar.

I'm somewhat happy to see this comment, but also a bit sad. I've had mine for a few years now, and I like them. It was a nice upgrade from B&W DM601. Driven by a miniDSP DDRC24 + Fosi BT20A Pro. I recently got the DDRC24 to use Dirac to try and make them sound a bit better without having to do too much work (i.e. doing proper room treatment).

Recently, I've finally upgraded my desktop setup to something proper: a Topping E50 + L30 II for my Sennheiser HD560S. Previously I was using a simple USB-C to jack 3.5mm Apple adapter with those headphones. I was very surprised by the significant difference it made. Listening to music on that setup is just so nice.

And this has pushed me to like my DBR62 a bit less. I know comparing bookshelves speakers to headphones isn't fair. But I just can't ignore it, listening to the speakers is just not as good. Sure the sound is more "enveloping", but it's not as "defined" as on the headphones, everything seems to be a bit mixed up together. It's easier to focus on each instrument with the headphones. I have no idea if that makes sense. Maybe that means I need to stop being lazy and start spending time looking into room treatment. Or maybe re-do my measurements in Dirac. Or I need a new better amp. Or maybe those just aren't the right speakers for me. So many questions.

This might be a good reminder that seeing speakers with very good measurements doesn't mean you're going to be blown away and be super happy with them.

 

[Eldus]

I'm somewhat happy to see this comment, but also a bit sad. I've had mine for a few years now, and I like them. It was a nice upgrade from B&W DM601. Driven by a miniDSP DDRC24 + Fosi BT20A Pro. I recently got the DDRC24 to use Dirac to try and make them sound a bit better without having to do too much work (i.e. doing proper room treatment).

Recently, I've finally upgraded my desktop setup to something proper: a Topping E50 + L30 II for my Sennheiser HD560S. Previously I was using a simple USB-C to jack 3.5mm Apple adapter with those headphones. I was very surprised by the significant difference it made. Listening to music on that setup is just so nice.

And this has pushed me to like my DBR62 a bit less. I know comparing bookshelves speakers to headphones isn't fair. But I just can't ignore it, listening to the speakers is just not as good. Sure the sound is more "enveloping", but it's not as "defined" as on the headphones, everything seems to be a bit mixed up together. It's easier to focus on each instrument with the headphones. I have no idea if that makes sense. Maybe that means I need to stop being lazy and start spending time looking into room treatment. Or maybe re-do my measurements in Dirac. Or I need a new better amp. Or maybe those just aren't the right speakers for me. So many questions.

This might be a good reminder that seeing speakers with very good measurements doesn't mean you're going to be blown away and be super happy with them.

Speaker placement and room acoustics play a major roll in the clarity of the speakers. With my DBR62s with Dirac Live for PC I am able to practically touch certain sounds.

 

[Philipp]

I know comparing bookshelves speakers to headphones isn't fair.

For me, headphone just could never compare to speakers, because headphone bass could never be felt in my guts.
I know it is an archaic way to feel about this topic, what can I say, for me its about speaker surface area ;-)
(Thats why I like my subwoofer with my DBRs)

 

[pathtonowhere]

Headphones clarity is a lot better compared to speakers in a normal room, especially when listening far-field. An untreated room makes up a lot of the sound and it gets muddy with all the reflections. Also, concrete/brick rooms greatly distort de bass, generating peaks and nulls, and OSB/gyprock rooms distort the midbass and low-mids to some degree.
On the other hand, speaker sound is different from headphones sound, you feel the energy, the bass.

Mitigating solutions would be treating the room as well as possible, looking for more directional speakers (deep waveguide, driver type/configuration etc). Or listening nearfield, which greatly improves clarity.

 

[sf600]

This speaker is the real deal. The tweeter is crystal clear with great instrument separation. My budget Aiyima A07 amp can power these speakers perfectly fine at 25% for nearfield desktop listening. The front ported bass port is a nice addition which makes a difference when the desk is away from the wall.

 

[thewas]

The front ported bass port is a nice addition which makes a difference when the desk is away from the wall.

Why would it make a difference in this case? Front ports have rather disadvantages on 2-ways unless you have to place the rear ported less than few inches close to the front wall.

 

[Bernard23]

Why would it make a difference in this case? Front ports have rather disadvantages on 2-ways unless you have to place the rear ported less than few inches close to the front wall.

Why is that?

 

[thewas]

Why is that?

Because unless special measures against are taken, parasitic midrange parts also leak from the port which are more audible when it is on the front.