Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[Anatols_Dad]

@Anatols_Dad they are hard to drive for the impedance, phase crossing angle in lows not because they are not efficient. So it will build up the heat on any amp over prolonged time pushed hard. "Beefy" amplifier that's good cooled helps there that it doesn't get in the territory of building up heat, keeping THD lower and not soft clipping. Keep in mind how every +3 dB is 2x W and to that how you for mid field (-6 dB) you need 4x the W and for far field that ends up to 16x to close field. You can cut (high pass) DBR62's high enough that they become easy peasy lemon squeeze to drive. And you get cuple more bonuses in doing so at the cost of sub's of course.

Thank you very much, @ZolaIII ! Looking forward to that odd free day (hopefully not too far away), when I can compare the abilities of these little jewels in peace, when attached to my power amp
Btw, - a little off topic but it does relate to your great answer - my TP amp does get rather warm during longer sessions (having a closed cabinet). But - to round it up - I really enjoy the sound of the combo, every day, in any case! Great speakers, IMO. Have a nice day.

 

[Roland68]

Hi,
A question that pops up in my mind now and again is the following:
Amir wrote in his review, that "you better have a beefy amplifier to drive this speaker."
I have these speakers set up in near field on my desk, using Topping's TP RA3 amp (w/ EQ on my PC). I like to listen to diverse music from quiet, up to certain higher levels. Trying to at least delay the hassle of having (& of course secretly wanting) to fully dismantle my main amp (Apollon NCx500 ST) for testing (I have a family and therefore very few free hours to openly indulge in my favourite hobby...), I'd like to ask for your opinion, if my amp is beefy enough, say for punchy music in a near field environment. I know, there have been quite a few statements that "tiny" amps are sufficient, but I'd like to hear from the pro's what they think (and of course I'll try for myself - as soon as I have the house to myself...). much obliged.

I also use the DBR62 with the PA5 II (identical to TP RA3) and with the Sabaj A30a in the near field and both amplifiers are completely sufficient, including headroom.

How warm does the TP RA3 get?
Can you put your hand on it?

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Hello.

I use my TOPPING PA5II with the 38V/4A power supply.
It has been on 24/7 for several months.

The atmosphere of my room is controlled:
- 28°C
- 46% RH

The temperature recorded in the center of the top of its case reaches a maximum of 39°C.

This is a completely normal temperature in relation to the construction/conception of this device and the conditions in which i use it.

 

[Anatols_Dad]

I also use the DBR62 with the PA5 II (identical to TP RA3) and with the Sabaj A30a in the near field and both amplifiers are completely sufficient, including headroom.

How warm does the TP RA3 get?
Can you put your hand on it?

Hi,
yes, no worries, it just gets warmer - in a still pleasant warm waterbottle region - than other amps I've owned. My Apollon get's way hotter, but - as I've read - that's pretty normal.
br

 

[Philipp]

at the cost of sub's of course.

I did exactly that, DBR62s with one active sub in near field, after reading lots of related input on ASR, with HP filter at 80Hz, which gives me lots of power from my vintage amp for the DBRs.
And what I really like about it, that I can pump deep powerful bass even at low listening levels.
DSP+REW would round it up, no time for that at the moment, but still with the fixed HP filter and a good old tape-loop integration its the cleanest and best to control sound I ever had at home.
Like that:

 

[ZolaIII]

I did exactly that, DBR62s with one active sub in near field, after reading lots of related input on ASR, with HP filter at 80Hz, which gives me lots of power from my vintage amp for the DBRs.
And what I really like about it, that I can pump deep powerful bass even at low listening levels.
DSP+REW would round it up, no time for that at the moment, but still with the fixed HP filter and a good old tape-loop integration its the cleanest and best to control sound I ever had at home.
Like that:
View attachment 423796

Well I meant a little bit higher, keep up it will continue to be that way.

 

[Philipp]

@ZolaIII
Yeah, I got that. But still, bass needs power anyhow, doesnt it, 80Hz HP gives the Denon more headroom for the DBRs than without it, correct?
(It might be more complicated than that I fear ;-) )

 

[ZolaIII]

@ZolaIII
Yeah, I got that. But still, bass needs power anyhow, doesnt it, 80Hz HP gives the Denon more headroom for the DBRs than without it, correct?
(It might be more complicated than that I fear ;-) )

It's not more complicated (you are correct), it's simply physics. Go to first page and take a look at both phase/impedance and waterfal cumulative spectral decay plots at about 110 Hz so above it (120 Hz). So you improve THD/capacity, make it easy to drive and lower cabinet resonance. But in that case 2.2 is recommended as bass sums up fully at 60, transition is to 80~90 and above is not a standing wave (directive). Other reason going so hi with crossover is if you want to improve transition area for equal loudness compensation as the knee is at 105 Hz for bass.

 

[Philipp]

@ZolaIII
Thanks a lot for the further explanation, of course I looked at the first page a lot, its not the same as beeing capable to interpret the measurements for every use case as you guys do it so easily, I really appriciate it!
For my use case, HP-filter is fixed to 80Hz, cannot change it, so its not the optimum but better than no filter at all, which I can clearly hear in AB-testing!

 

[ZolaIII]

@ZolaIII
Thanks a lot for the further explanation, of course I looked at the first page a lot, its not the same as beeing capable to interpret the measurements for every use case as you guys do it so easily, I really appriciate it!
For my use case, HP-filter is fixed to 80Hz, cannot change it, so its not the optimum but better than no filter at all, which I can clearly hear in AB-testing!

There is a series of YouTube videos from the host on how to interpret measurements and so on. Watch some when you get time to do so and have fun.

Audio Science Review

Technical Reviews, Discussions and Measurements of Audio Products. This video channel is an adjunct to Audio Science Review website which contains the same.

youtube.com

 

[NovakJi]

Hello, everyone. What would be a good amplifier to run those in 2.0 or 2.1 setup with my TV these days (I am located in EU)? And would it be any different if its TV or my desktop PC? I might consider them for a near-field as well in the future. I know there is Topping PA II, which seems like a great choice. Is there anything a bit more cheaper to buy? And would there be a dramatic difference?

If I eventually want to switch to 3.0 setup or 3.1 setup, I would need an AVR, right? Could you guys give me a recommendation as well, please? There is new models every few years and to be honest I am getting a bit lost at it. Also, would it be a bad choice to use another DBR62 as a center? I guess that would be better than usual 2-way centers, right? Thanks a lot.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

O-NOORUS D4 ->

O-NOORUS D4 TPA3255 PFFB stereo amplifier with HDMI ARC Bluetooth USB

Description: Versatile Connectivity: D4 offers a comprehensive range of input options, including HDMI ARC, Bluetooth, USB, U disk, optical fiber, coaxial, and RCA, ensuring compatibility with diverse audio sources and user preferences. High-Fidelity Audio: Utilizing the ES9023P DAC for most...

www.o-noorus.com

versatile, cheap and 'honest'

Another DBR62 as a center is a good idea and a very good choice IMO

However, I think that with the ELAC pair you will be able to do without a central lane...

A good powered subwoofer could be more interesting to go even further down the bass

 

[NovakJi]

O-NOORUS D4 ->

O-NOORUS D4 TPA3255 PFFB stereo amplifier with HDMI ARC Bluetooth USB

Description: Versatile Connectivity: D4 offers a comprehensive range of input options, including HDMI ARC, Bluetooth, USB, U disk, optical fiber, coaxial, and RCA, ensuring compatibility with diverse audio sources and user preferences. High-Fidelity Audio: Utilizing the ES9023P DAC for most...

www.o-noorus.com

versatile, cheap and 'honest'

Another DBR62 as a center is a good idea and a very good choice IMO

However, I think that with the ELAC pair you will be able to do without a central lane...

A good powered subwoofer could be more interesting to go even further down the bass

Hey, this looks cool! However its from China, so I will have to add vat and customs probably. In that case it will probably be the same as buying Topping PA 5 II in EU. Which would be better then? And also is there a difference between the power supplies? Do I buy the 48V one or the weaker one?

 

[wyup]

This speaker needs juice for bass to make appearance. Don't skim on good power. Yes, it will sound but for these cheap toy metal sound class D amplifiers you can do better with cheaper and more efficient speakers, such as Wharfedale Diamond 12 or so.
This speaker deserves 1k$+ amps for good sound quality, like a Denon PMA-1700NE. DBR62 is a speaker to save money with and spend the rest on a good amplifier, because it scales up so well.

 

[Philipp]

2.0 or 2.1 setup with my TV these days

Wiim Amp has HDMI, helps with TV and Sub-Out, which helps with 2.1, has EQ/PEQ too.
Powerwise its limited… see discussion above.

The recommanded Denon lacks typical AVR-skills what might make him a poor choice for TV i.m.o.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Hello wyup.

You say that ELACs need a lot of power ?

The DENON you mention provides 2 x 70W into 8 Ohms while the O-NOORUS D4 will provide almost double (2 x 135W) that with a 48V power supply.

I prefer not to even mention the SINAD which will be better with the O-NOORUS, of course...

So NovakJi, if you have to spend the sum on the purchase of this DENON then buy the O-NOORUS D4 with a good powered subwoofer (like a Q Acoustics Q B12 for exemple)
instead because you will even have money left over to spend a good weekend as a couple

The Wiim Amp will be limited to 60 Watts per channel into 8 ohms and will cost more than double that of the O-NOORUS D4.

However, the Wiim Amp has a built-in streamer (if you need one..).

 

[NovakJi]

Wiim Amp has HDMI, helps with TV and Sub-Out, which helps with 2.1, has EQ/PEQ too.
Powerwise its limited… see discussion above.

The recommanded Denon lacks typical AVR-skills what might make him a poor choice for TV i.m.o.

Yeah but wiim amp is 350 eur. Thats quite a lot.

 

[Philipp]

For what it offers its not.

 

[Philipp]

The Wiim Amp will be limited to 60 Watts per channel into 8 ohms and will cost more than double that of the O-NOORUS D4.

Double the power on paper, but nearly none of the TPA3255 devices deliver on these numbers when you measure them.
Maybe 90-100W in 8 Ohm, but thats the limit.

In addition, I said „See discussion above“ where we just discussed free-ing up power with crossover over 100Hz, you can do that with the Wiims EQ/PEQ and an active subwoofer on sub-out. Power will be fine with deep bass cut out.

 

[ZolaIII]

Yeah but wiim amp is 350 eur. Thats quite a lot.

Where in EU? What do you want to achieve? I inače šta još?