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Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

FrantzM

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Here we have a world-class, speaker selling for $600 A PAIR !!!!.. yet some people are not pleased. I suppose most people would like to receive a better remuneration for their work... forgetting that this increase has cost and consequences...

This out. I am thinking out here:

Mated to a serious subwoofer system, say 3 subs plus a miniDSP 2x4 (for a total <$1000) or other DSP/EQ and a Umik ($100) there is a potential to build a World-class sounding system for $2000 total including source and cables...

Wow!!!
 
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renaudrenaud

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Not only that, we can't forget the SP-BS22-LR modifications that Dennis came up with. Replacing the tweeter and some of the crossover components on the Pioneer speakers, apparently, made for a great little upgrade to the tune of around $80, plus the time to perform the modifications.

With that being said, my Debut Reference speakers are on the FedEx truck and will be delivered today. Should be an exciting day - a good excuse to stay out of the rain.
Can't wait reading your first impression!
 

rebbiputzmaker

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Here we have a world-class, speaker selling for $600 A PAIR !!!!.. yet some people are not pleased. I suppose most people would like to receive a better remuneration for their work... forgetting that this increase has cost and consequences...

This out. I am thinking out here:

Mated to a serious subwoofer system, say 3 subs plus a miniDSP 2x4 (for a total <$1000) or other DSP/EQ and a Umik ($100) there is a potential to build a World-class sounding system for $2000 total including source and cables...

Wow!!!
Depends on what world one lives in. People may be getting a bit carried away with these speakers.
 

wje

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Crutchfield just out up an open box walnut and black for $570 in their outlet
Yes, I just noticed that this morning too when I was checking some other items out. Crutchfield is just a 90 minute drive from my house, but their retail locations are closed due to the virus. However, I've made many purchases from Crutchfield and have been happy with them. A little "tip" about Crutchfield and how - in my experience, their system works. "Open Box" is usually a loss-leader that they offer out on their site to see if someone will respond by noticing it and making the purchase. Sort of a "test" I guess. Every "Open Box" item I've ordered from Crutchfield has been a new and fully sealed item. Then, they also have the "Scratch and Dent" items that can be listed for an offering too. Those items are sold even at deeper discount. Those items are an item that usually a customer returned. The products are checked and repacked. Yet, on all of my "Scratch and Dent" purchases, the items arrived in perfect condition - but at a greater savings.
 

FrantzM

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Depends on what world one lives in. People may be getting a bit carried away with these speakers.
Care to back-up your opinion with some facts?

I have not heard these speakers but based on the measurements I see here, they are good. I understand that there are subjective views on speaker and I cannot assume that those measurements suggest that everyone will love these speakers. Let put these aside for now. There is an objective reality for what most listeners prefer in a speaker. These speakers fall within those objective realities . IOW they fit the metrics (established by numerous reseach, especially those at Harman and at the NRC in Canada) that most people are likely to judge these as good speakers, blind. not knowing price and model. That is a hell of a result for rather nice looking (subjective) speakers, that an audiophile can have at retail places or these days on her/his doors for $600 a pair.

To repeat ad nauseum. If care is taken to mate this with a trio of cheap subwoofer controlled by a decent and equally cheap miniDSp such as the 2 x 4 and using and sweating and cursing but measuring with REW and a UMik-1, a not-too poor audiophile can attain a 20 to 20,000 Hz accurate 2-channel Audio system for around $2000. I am not sure such a level of quality is easy to achieve at $2000 in a realm where the official word is that you need to treat your room for $10,000, then buy cables for another $10,000, amps for $5000, DAC for $2000 ad finally (often mediocre) speakers for any multiple of $600 one cares to come up with ....

Now if there are other exemples of speaker pairs that will fit the objective criteria that achieve or surpass similar results for same or less amount, I (and others) will be pleased to know about those.
 
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Care to back-up your opinion with some facts?

I have not heard these speakers but based on the measurements I see here, they are good. I understand that there are subjective views on speaker and I cannot assume that those measurements suggest that everyone will love these speakers. Let put these aside for now. There is an objective reality for what most listeners prefer in a speaker. These speakers fall within those objective realities . IOW they fit the metrics (established by numerous reseach, especially those at Harman and at the NRC in Canada) that most people are likely to judge these as good speakers, blind. not knowing price and model. That is a hell of a result for a nice box of speakers an audiophile can have at retail places or these days on her/his doors for $600 a pair.

To repeat my self at nauseum. If care is taken to mate this with a trio of cheap subwoofer controlled by a decent and equally cheap miniDSp such as the 2 x4 and using and sweating and cursing but measuring with REW and a UMik-1. A not too poor audiophile can attain a 20 to 20,000 Hz accurate system for around $2000. I am not sure such a level of quality is easy to achieve at $2000 considering a realm where the official word is that you need to terat y our room for $10,000, then buy cables for another $10,000, amps for $5000, DAC for $2000 ad finally truly bad speakers for any multiple of $600 one cares to come up with ....

Now if there are other exemples of speaker pairs that will fit the objective criteria that can achieve similar results for same or less amount, I (and others) will be pleased to know about those.
That's why I suggest testing real budget speakers such as monitor audio bx2... and see how well they deliver. I am quite pleased with them actually.
 

Bear123

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I regret not buying the BMR while they were still “affordable”. KUDOS on an amazing speaker design Mr.Murphy!
They are still available very affordably from Meniscus Audio, although the tweeter is out of stock until Mid April. The price has been removed, guess as they are out of stock, but I imagine you could inquire about the kit price. I think I recall Dennis saying something somewhere about trying to provide a source for flat packs or unfinished cabs for folks that want to assemble and need the cabinet work done. Might be worth checking with him, as he is on the forums now. Not sure how to tag him.

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/phiharmonic-audio-bmr-speaker-kit/
 

Dennis Murphy

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They are still available very affordably from Meniscus Audio, although the tweeter is out of stock until Mid April. The price has been removed, guess as they are out of stock, but I imagine you could inquire about the kit price. I think I recall Dennis saying something somewhere about trying to provide a source for flat packs or unfinished cabs for folks that want to assemble and need the cabinet work done. Might be worth checking with him, as he is on the forums now. Not sure how to tag him.

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/phiharmonic-audio-bmr-speaker-kit/
Flat packs and assembled cabinets are available from https://www.speakerhardware.com/philharmonic-bmr-flat-pack.php RAAL is located in Serbia, and the whole country is in lock down, so no one can make any promises about an ETA for more tweeters.
 

ROOSKIE

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Not only that, we can't forget the SP-BS22-LR modifications that Dennis came up with. Replacing the tweeter and some of the crossover components on the Pioneer speakers, apparently, made for a great little upgrade to the tune of around $80, plus the time to perform the modifications.

With that being said, my Debut Reference speakers are on the FedEx truck and will be delivered today. Should be an exciting day - a good excuse to stay out of the rain.
Yes, Dennis Murphy is a hero to many many of us who dabble in DIY and mods. He is all the good stuff and none of the snake oil bad. Zero. He helped so many people out it is crazy. I hope he stays on this forum. Seriously people this is a wonderful thing entirely to have drawn his attentions.
 
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[Re: coaxial] Have these & the Adantes... cosy and fun(debut). Adantes are just another level tho, dramatic and more exciting, feel like I'm not missing anything. YMMV
 

richard12511

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[Re: coaxial] Have these & the Adantes... cosy and fun(debut). Adantes are just another level tho, dramatic and more exciting, feel like I'm not missing anything. YMMV
You should set up a blind shootout between the two.

Objectively the DBR-62 looks to be the better speaker, and Amir also seemed to subjectively like it much more. The science suggests that most people should prefer the DBR-62 over the Adante, but it would be great to see that actually play out in a real blind test.

Actually, it might be interesting to do a couple get togethers. One blind get together, and nne sighted get together. Will people flip to preferring the Adante once they know they're listening to the more expensive speaker?

Would be a really interesting test, imo.
 

ROOSKIE

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You should set up a blind shootout between the two.

Objectively the DBR-62 looks to be the better speaker, and Amir also seemed to subjectively like it much more. The science suggests that most people should prefer the DBR-62 over the Adante, but it would be great to see that actually play out in a real blind test.

Actually, it might be interesting to do a couple get togethers. One blind get together, and nne sighted get together. Will people flip to preferring the Adante once they know they're listening to the more expensive speaker?

Would be a really interesting test, imo.
Amir also did not really like the KEF R3 and the science suggest that the vast majority would prefer that over both of the ELAC speakers. In fact there is an odd constant criticism of the KEF R3 (and most KEF speakers) on these threads. Not sure if that is because they actually don't excite people as anticipated or do to some unknown biases against them.
 

Sancus

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Amir also did not really like the KEF R3 and the science suggest that the vast majority would prefer that over both of the ELAC speakers. In fact there is an odd constant criticism of the KEF R3 (and most KEF speakers) on these threads. Not sure if that is because they actually don't excite people as anticipated or do to some unknown biases against them.
The reason for him not liking the R3 was established to be room modes though, not the speaker. From the Revel F35 review, after EQ:
Boy, was that a miracle fix! Gorgeous detail was there with almost no loss in total bass energy. Indeed bass was now tighter. The "magic" that I heard in the Revel M16 was now imparted into KEF R3.
 
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You should set up a blind shootout between the two.

Objectively the DBR-62 looks to be the better speaker, and Amir also seemed to subjectively like it much more. The science suggests that most people should prefer the DBR-62 over the Adante, but it would be great to see that actually play out in a real blind test.

Actually, it might be interesting to do a couple get togethers. One blind get together, and nne sighted get together. Will people flip to preferring the Adante once they know they're listening to the more expensive speaker?

Would be a really interesting test, imo.
I know my friends, they'd pick the Debut immediately (both sighted/unsighted) fire from the hip -- the Adantes, unfold... the start of the song, good, but low-key*... there's VARIETY, greater peaks/valleys as the song/album completes. The debuts, less, variety. End of the night tho, I bet the Adante's will be preferred.

Also the Bass treads this weird line, like is there enough, is there too little? Andrew tuned it PERFECT (Adante).

Gonna do a get together, soon as the pandemic simmers down.

*(in the sense you want them to blow your mind, they are kinda intimidating looking :D )
 
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rebbiputzmaker

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Care to back-up your opinion with some facts?

I have not heard these speakers but based on the measurements I see here, they are good. I understand that there are subjective views on speaker and I cannot assume that those measurements suggest that everyone will love these speakers. Let put these aside for now. There is an objective reality for what most listeners prefer in a speaker. These speakers fall within those objective realities . IOW they fit the metrics (established by numerous reseach, especially those at Harman and at the NRC in Canada) that most people are likely to judge these as good speakers, blind. not knowing price and model. That is a hell of a result for rather nice looking (subjective) speakers, that an audiophile can have at retail places or these days on her/his doors for $600 a pair.

To repeat ad nauseum. If care is taken to mate this with a trio of cheap subwoofer controlled by a decent and equally cheap miniDSp such as the 2 x 4 and using and sweating and cursing but measuring with REW and a UMik-1, a not-too poor audiophile can attain a 20 to 20,000 Hz accurate 2-channel Audio system for around $2000. I am not sure such a level of quality is easy to achieve at $2000 in a realm where the official word is that you need to treat your room for $10,000, then buy cables for another $10,000, amps for $5000, DAC for $2000 ad finally (often mediocre) speakers for any multiple of $600 one cares to come up with ....

Now if there are other exemples of speaker pairs that will fit the objective criteria that achieve or surpass similar results for same or less amount, I (and others) will be pleased to know about those.
Nothing you’re saying is incorrect my point was that they are for the most part good sounding upper entry level speakers. I’m not comparing them with other high-priced items, cable amplifiers etc. not really pertinent. There are many other speakers that also fit this criteria And would also make a very good entry-level system for not a lot of money. Maybe a E30 Dac, a lower level hypex and a pair of these speakers or infinity R162s or maybe one of the other decent sounding reasonably priced speakers that are available. I don’t focus on bass as I would rather get the majority of the music right, personally, only use subwoofers for home theater. If I didn’t have seven pairs of speakers already I would pick them up to try them. Maybe when they come down in price I will grab a pair. There is nothing earth shattering about the design or materials either. Just a well implemented basic design by a competent speaker designer.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Is US $600 a budget price? I've paid $300 for pair of monitor audio bx2 and I thought it's already expensive :p
Speakers range from $50 to $250,000 and beyond. So yes, in that rage, $600 is quite budget priced. That doesn't make it affordable for everyone. That is a different topic.
 

wje

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OK. So, they arrived, but ...

DSC00283.JPG


I was so excited when I saw the FedEx truck outside a short bit ago. Open the box, and... they're the Oak/white version, not the Walnut that I had ordered. :rolleyes: OK, let me compose myself a bit. I'm trying to rationalize a bit. Maybe, I was destined for some lighter gear, but will carefully think about it before contacting Audio Advisor and seek an exchange. Granted, I'm running them full range, but have my 2 10" Monolith subs crossed with the MiniDSP and introduced at 70 Hz. Up until the Debut Reference arrived, I had been switching back and forth between the Elac B6.2 and the Monitor Audio Bronze 2 speakers.

OK, some first impressions - subjective, of course: 90% of the music I listen to is smooth jazz so I've gotten to know how many of the songs present themselves on my previous gear and speakers. The Debut Reference is "refined" in sound when compared to my B6.2 Elacs. I will say that much. The upper frequencies of the Elac Reference are slightly toned down when compared to my B6.2 and suspect many people who complained about the upper frequencies of the B6.2, might take another look or listen to the Debut Reference. Yet, the frequencies in the upper regions are not masked - just clear, refined. The mids? Again, refined. I can't vouch for their full-range performance, but may do some tests a bit later with the subs turned off.

Though, at the MSRP of $599, I have a feeling that the Debut Reference might embarrass quite a few other offerings out there in the $500 - $1,200 range. I'd love to bring these into Best Buy Magnolia and have them place them on the shelves and compare them to some of their on the shelf offerings. After all, even Best Buy Magnolia doesn't keep the Uni-Fi Slim @ $849 in the same room with the B&W, KEF, and Definitive Technology speakers.

I'll leave things where they are for now. I have to capture some more impressions - but, I do like the sound a lot.
 
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