ELAC Debut 3 : DB5.3 Bookshelf Tear Down / Upgraded Xover

[daniboun]

Hi amigos,

I managed to get my hands on a pair of Elac Debut DB5.3 speakers, a worthy successor to the DB5.2.
There aren't any Klippel NFS measurements available for this model yet, but the DB6.3 have been reviewed by Erin a few weeks ago.

I started this little thread as an experiment. I wanted to see what these DB5.3s were capable of. So, I took the speakers apart to assess the build quality and show the crossover to interested members. It's a third-order crossover, and upon closer inspection, it's clear that Elac seems to have spent considerable time developing it, given its design.

Incidentally, I upgraded the crossover by replacing all the MET (metallized polyester film capacitors) with higher-quality MKP capacitors and low-inductance 1% MOX resistors. I didn't change any values; this is an experimental upgrade. Below, I've included measurements I took using my Wiim Amp Pro with a calibrated microphone to compare the original and modified versions.

At first glance, you can see a flared bass-reflex port positioned directly in front of the tweeter. The cabinet is also reinforced by an internal horizontal brace. The front panel is 18mm thick (25mm including the deflector) and the rear panel is about 15mm. I assume the side panels are the same thickness as the rear panel. The binding posts are well-made and non-conductive. The sound insulation seems good, but I still wanted to add 3mm thick Alubutyl panels to optimize it.

For your information, the Xover upgrade + Alubutyl insulation cost me €70 in total. (Mod Crossover = black caps)
However, allow at least 6 hours of work because the original components were glued in by Elac and it's very tricky to remove them...For anyone who wants to do this tweak, make sure you have the right tools!

The woofer (Aramid-fiber) weighs 1800 grams, but I didn't weigh the 1-inch aluminum dome tweeter. Note that the tweeter has a waveguide; we'll have to wait for the Klippel test to see how it performs. I don't have all the technical information regarding the tweeter and woofer, but the DB6.3 was tested in detail below, we can therefore assume they are of good quality.

DB6.3 Tear Down

I imagine you'd like to know what I think of the sound? Well, these speakers, considering their price-to-performance ratio, are absolutely convincing, provided you pair them with a subwoofer. To be honest, they remind me somewhat of my Polk R100s… They have excellent holography, and their frequency response (±3dB) is from 70Hz to 34kHz, adding a sub seems necessary to complete them.

On my Wiim amp pro, I set the subwoofer's frequency to 80Hz. By default, it's better to set the crossover frequency 10-15Hz above the speaker's low-frequency extension.


ELAC GLOBAL SPEC FOR INFO :

Pics :

Room Fit Measurements (my Living Room is about 50m2)
We can't say for sure that there's a noticeable difference, but I like to tinker around to form my own opinion.

Stock Xover

Mod Xover

 

[Joe Smith]

I'm very glad to see the construction quality is still good for the new Deubt series - I have the earlier version, still enjoy that one. I don't really love the look of the new tweeter waveguides, but I suppose they are superior to the ones on my series. You did a lot of work on the crossover upgrade - to my mind, that was a lot of work, and the response curve really didn't change by much. Audible? I consistently recommend the Debut series to new purchasers as a good option that won't break the bank.

 

[daniboun]

I'm very glad to see the construction quality is still good for the new Deubt series - I have the earlier version, still enjoy that one. I don't really love the look of the new tweeter waveguides, but I suppose they are superior to the ones on my series. You did a lot of work on the crossover upgrade - to my mind, that was a lot of work, and the response curve really didn't change by much. Audible? I consistently recommend the Debut series to new purchasers as a good option that won't break the bank.

As for the comment, I also find the Debut series to offer excellent value for money. Modifying the crossover is difficult simply because I had to detach all the original components, which were glued in place. Personally, even though measurements might prove me wrong, I really like what I hear now; the treble is very pleasant and not harsh. Overall, it's an excellent speaker considering the price; I think it's hard to find better in this range. I'm still curious to learn more through a Klippel review.

 

[3125b]

Thanks for the pictures.
For a fairly cheap speaker (349€/pair) the build quality seems pretty good, better than the much more expensive Wharfdale in that other thread.

 

[delta76]

Did you mean "a few years ago" , Erin reviewed DB63 in 2024 https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/elac_db63/
I don't see any recent Elac reviews from him
strange this is not on https://www.spinorama.org/

 

[Putter]

It seems a little bizarre to me replacing fairly high quality caps with what might be slightly better measuring caps.

It would be interesting to interesting to see whether the originals measured within 1 % which has been my (limited) experience and seems to be confirmed by your measurements within experimental error.

I'm glad you're happy with the mods. Hopefully you won't need any work on your speakers as you voided the warranty.

 

[daniboun]

Thanks for the pictures.
For a fairly cheap speaker (349€/pair) the build quality seems pretty good, better than the much more expensive Wharfdale in that other thread.

What's quite surprising is seeing such a well-developed crossover in this price range. In any case, Elac has clearly made an effort in this area.

 

[daniboun]

It seems a little bizarre to me replacing fairly high quality caps with what might be slightly better measuring caps.

It would be interesting to interesting to see whether the originals measured within 1 % which has been my (limited) experience and seems to be confirmed by your measurements within experimental error.

I'm glad you're happy with the mods. Hopefully you won't need any work on your speakers as you voided the warranty.

This is a calculated risk regarding the warranty.
Keep in mind, the stock caps are MET type. MKP caps are supposed to be better than MET, especially for high frequency signal (treble).
MET caps are generally used to reduce the cost,....This is how manufacturers control costs, the sad race for profit ))
BTW the 10uf @10% stock Electrolytic caps have been replaced by an Audio grade Mundorf one @5%, same goes for the resistors 5% vs 1%

MET: Metallized polyester film axial capacitor
MKP: Metallized polypropylene film axial capacitor

 

[DVDdoug]

Keep in mind, the stock caps are MET type. MKP caps are supposed to be better than MET, especially for high frequency signal (treble).

If you ask a capacitor manufacturer, audio frequencies are not "high frequency". A lot of electronics runs at MHz and GHz frequencies. In audio, yes, 20kHz is high frequency. Most film capacitors are very good, and stable. Of course lower tolerance is usually "better" in a crossover, filter, or tuned circuit application. (In most applications, tolerance or capacitor value isn't critical.)

BTW the 10uf @10% stock Electrolytic caps have been replaced by an Audio grade Mundorf one @5%

If you are going to all of this trouble, why not a 1% film capacitor? The electrolytic is probably the weakest link in the crossover. That might not change the performance but you can get tighter tolerance and it will likely be more stable over the years. "Good crossovers" rarely use electrolytics.

I assume the original resistors were non-inductive, and again resistors rarely have enough inductance to cause problems at audio frequencies.

 

[daniboun]

If you ask a capacitor manufacturer, audio frequencies are not "high frequency". A lot of electronics runs at MHz and GHz frequencies. In audio, yes, 20kHz is high frequency. Most film capacitors are very good, and stable. Of course lower tolerance is usually "better" in a crossover, filter, or tuned circuit application. (In most applications, tolerance or capacitor value isn't critical.)


If you are going to all of this trouble, why not a 1% film capacitor? The electrolytic is probably the weakest link in the crossover. That might not change the performance but you can get tighter tolerance and it will likely be more stable over the years. "Good crossovers" rarely use electrolytics.

I assume the original resistors were non-inductive, and again resistors rarely have enough inductance to cause problems at audio frequencies.

Agree ) I specified that it was an upgrade for purely experimental purposes
Regarding the 1 % film cap, I hesitated, but it seemed a bit too big to fit here...

 

[MAB]

This is a calculated risk regarding the warranty.
Keep in mind, the stock caps are MET type. MKP caps are supposed to be better than MET, especially for high frequency signal (treble).
MET caps are generally used to reduce the cost,....This is how manufacturers control costs, the sad race for profit ))
BTW the 10uf @10% stock Electrolytic caps have been replaced by an Audio grade Mundorf one @5%, same goes for the resistors 5% vs 1%

MET: Metallized polyester film axial capacitor
MKP: Metallized polypropylene film axial capacitor

I think you just proved they are not better or worse than each other. The traces are line on line identical, except for a few deviations in mid-bass, which may be mic/speaker/room changes between the two measurements. The equivalence of capacitors has been covered extensively here. Yes, various capacitors are 'said' to be superior, but is not the case for these types of capacitors unless you get some really oddball ones. I tend to use WIMA and Panasonic since they actually measure better than the so-called speaker capacitors marketed as upgrades, and are of course much cheaper than capacitors marketed as speaker capacitors, with better part to part matching irrespective of the quoted tolerance. Panasonic and WIMA (for example) both sell their capacitors to much more critical applications than speakers so no surprise they have better tolerances.

Regarding changing the electrolytic for a Mundorf film cap... the Mundorf has a different ESR which will change the filter characteristics from the original design. Which may be why there is a notch in the response at 160 Hz now. Or it may be mic setup changes, unless you were cm-perfect in your before and after measurements. You could use crossover modeling software like VituixCAD to see what a change in that element's ESR will result in response. I see people changing caps in notch filters where the ESR is an integral part of the filter response and degrading the performance.

I'm sure your mods sound great. In the sense that you likely didn't change much, and likely even the electrolytic change is small and subtle, and you have good sounding speakers. And if I made a change that didn't alter the sound too much I would probably also believe they sounded great, even better, since bias rules us in the absence of information!

Edit: I just noticed the Mundorf replacement is another electrolytic cap. Likely not too much different ESR from the original. So likely the small change was the microphone measurement.

 

[Nopiano]

Do Elac make the woofers? They look a bit like SB Acoustics.

 

[daniboun]

I think you just proved they are not better or worse than each other. The traces are line on line identical, except for a few deviations in mid-bass, which may be mic/speaker/room changes between the two measurements. The equivalence of capacitors has been covered extensively here. Yes, various capacitors are 'said' to be superior, but is not the case for these types of capacitors unless you get some really oddball ones. I tend to use WIMA and Panasonic since they actually measure better than the so-called speaker capacitors marketed as upgrades, and are of course much cheaper than capacitors marketed as speaker capacitors, with better part to part matching irrespective of the quoted tolerance. Panasonic and WIMA (for example) both sell their capacitors to much more critical applications than speakers so no surprise they have better tolerances.

Regarding changing the electrolytic for a Mundorf film cap... the Mundorf has a different ESR which will change the filter characteristics from the original design. Which may be why there is a notch in the response at 160 Hz now. Or it may be mic setup changes, unless you were cm-perfect in your before and after measurements. You could use crossover modeling software like VituixCAD to see what a change in that element's ESR will result in response. I see people changing caps in notch filters where the ESR is an integral part of the filter response and degrading the performance.

I'm sure your mods sound great. In the sense that you likely didn't change much, and likely even the electrolytic change is small and subtle, and you have good sounding speakers. And if I made a change that didn't alter the sound too much I would probably also believe they sounded great, even better, since bias rules us in the absence of information!

I don't doubt what you're saying at all. I even agree with you.
I own an XTZ Analyzer Pro II measurement kit with a good calibrated mic but I don't particularly have the time to dedicate to it.

 

[daniboun]

Do Elac make the woofers? They look a bit like SB Acoustics.

No idea maybe it could help :

 

[Joe Smith]

It's nice to see that they upped the crossover from the previous series (and held roughly the same price point) - I looked it up, and I guess my previous versions just have a 2-order crossover in them.

 

[DVDdoug]

Microphone measurements....

I was once making some measurements with high-frequency test tones and an SPL meter on a mic stand (maybe 5-10Khz, I don't remember). The measurements were changing by several dB as I moved around behind the SPL meter! And if you've ever listened to high-frequency test tones you can hear the loudness change as you move your head slightly and the left & right and reflected waves combine in-and-out of phase. I expected that, but I surprised how much the position of my body affected the measurements. Lower frequences (longer wavelengths) are far-less finicky.

 

[Nopiano]

No idea maybe it could help :

Thanks, but that number doesn’t seem to yield anything. Maybe someone else will recognise, or it’s made for Elac wherever these are built.

 

[daniboun]

Thanks, but that number doesn’t seem to yield anything. Maybe someone else will recognise, or it’s made for Elac wherever these are built.

I can share you the full parameters of the DB63 that use the same Woofer in 6.5

 

[Nopiano]

I can share you the full parameters of the DB63 that use the same Woofer in 6.5

That’s very kind, but I was only curious about whether these are bought-in mid-woofers or built to their own spec in China.

 

[Wolf11Man]

It seems odd to me that some consider the tollerance of capacitors a quality feature. It is only a question of selection.
With my crossovers I measure each component and match them as close as possible. You do not need an expensive instrument, in fact a 10$ component tester from China will do. Even as the absolute values may not be spot on, you can match caps, coils and resistors to be within a very close, like 1% window. Coils can be adjusted by simply removing a winding or a half, from the one with the largest value. If you use high quality drivers, such a low tollerance x-over will help with soundstage. At least this is what I noticed.

Capacitors are a highly controversal component, my very personal experience is that anything yellow, from a certain Asian country, can be worth replacing and really improve sound, not only change it a little. The most audible results come from caps in the tweeters direct way.
This is no plea for boutique caps from the usual crooks, those are many times overpriced, a 90€ Gold-Silver-Oil-virgin blood Mumpitz special will not sound better than some 1.90€ Wima, Epcos or other quality industry part. Also be aware, different sounding doesn't automatically mean better sound. You need extensive A-B listening, measurements will not get you far with crossover components.