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Elac Carina BS243.4 Review (Bookshelf Speaker)
- Thread starter amirm
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That AMT tweeter sure as heck looks like the $35 AMT Mini-8 from Dayton / Parts Express. https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-AMT-Mini-8-Air-Motion-Transformer-Tweeter-275-095
Also there is 283.3
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That resemblance is very superficial -- yes, they both have five slots with folded Kapton showing and four screws, but that's about it.
Thank you for the test.
The low frequency driver has pretty high Q, 6dB+ null around crossover point, which is clearly the issue observed from the tests. BBC dip is a very wide dip. The low frequency driver's cone is breaking around 3kHz and hence it is not suitable for a 2-way speaker crossing over above 1.5kHz and with a fast slope. The issue is not caused by the tweeter.
I personally cannot see this nowhere near as a well executed speaker. 101 in speaker design says chose drive units to suit the job. There is simply no reason other than cost to utilise a driver that has such a large dip at the crossover frequency. However, this is not a cheap speaker: it is $2000 a pair!
GiBo61
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Because they sound good, actually really good.I had the opportunity to listen to them in two different setup and I loved them. At the end I bought the more expensive sisters (Elac Vela BS 403) the are a little bit more neutral and refined but probably less exciting.
GiBo61
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In Europe they are a little bit less than 1000 Euro/pair
I was fooled by @amirm's price figure I assumed a single unit is $999 as he said "It is on kind loan from a member and sells for US $999." It being a single unit.
In the UK a pair of these speakers sell for £999, the same as a KEF LS50 Meta. Which one should I buy, the one with a deep hole in the frequency response or the one with is flat and wide as a pancake?
beagleman
Major Contributor
Or MOST likely could be intentional.
Many so called "Issues" are there for a reason.
Not cause they did not realize, or just AJ messed up.
Again, only asking him "Why" would reveal the reason.
My guess, it alleviated "other issues" that would result by filling in the gap.
Usually not an oversight, or bad parts etc.....
Sometimes, a small imperfection in one area, is preferred to a different imperfection some other area.....
All speakers are compromises.
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GiBo61
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You should buy the ones that you like more when you compare their sound in a store. I highly believe in accurate measurements of hifi devices but when it comes to speakers it's also extremely important how they actually sound (even better if you can test them n your listening room at home).I was fooled by @amirm's price figure I assumed a single unit is $999 as he said "It is on kind loan from a member and sells for US $999." It being a single unit.
In the UK a pair of these speakers sell for £999, the same as a KEF LS50 Meta. Which one should I buy, the one with a deep hole in the frequency response or the one with is flat and wide as a pancake?
I disagree. Look at the low-frequency driver response by itself, no summing. Do you know a LP filter that can generate such a dip?
The dip is time dependant. If it had been electrical the waterfall would be the same at all times, but when the energy is reduced the dip is much less severe. The clear behaviour of a cone breaking up.
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beagleman
Major Contributor
I would guess that "Deep hole" would barely be noticeable in actual use.I was fooled by @amirm's price figure I assumed a single unit is $999 as he said "It is on kind loan from a member and sells for US $999." It being a single unit.
In the UK a pair of these speakers sell for £999, the same as a KEF LS50 Meta. Which one should I buy, the one with a deep hole in the frequency response or the one with is flat and wide as a pancake?
Small dips are not heard very easily and are far preferred to a small peak
@amirm noticed it pretty clearly.
beagleman
Major Contributor
I am not sure though, if he noticed it at first, or after seeing the measurement?
Not saying he did NOT notice it, but was it listened to first or measured first.
I notice a lot of things, when I know what to look for, when I measure stuff.
But without knowing there was a small dip there, many times, I have no idea there is one, was what I meant.,
So you are saying ignorance is bliss?
Funny how spinorama is supposed to help answer certain design decisions while going up the price points by doing even more measurements
yet now it just gives even more questions.
Not the first time nor the last time a manufacturer has at a higher price point chosen to use a non-dome tweeter instead of a dome + waveguide even when the same manufacturer has totally fine speakers at a lower price point with dome.
Then again, I used to be a non-evidence-driven idiot in the past so the me back then would be the target audience.
yet now it just gives even more questions.
Not the first time nor the last time a manufacturer has at a higher price point chosen to use a non-dome tweeter instead of a dome + waveguide even when the same manufacturer has totally fine speakers at a lower price point with dome.
Then again, I used to be a non-evidence-driven idiot in the past so the me back then would be the target audience.
i think that error at 2-3.5 k hz is actually more like 2.5- 3.5 k hz.. so in effect that should make it even easier to eq.. amt tweeters really are pretty clean playing ime as well.. at the current price(under $1000 US) they are probably a very decent choice...
OWC
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A crossover misalignment wouldn't show of as such a heavy peak in the distortion graph.
@amirm Can you also provide Burst Decay Envelope graphs?
They are a lot more useful compared to Waterfall diagrams, especially when it comes down to certain resonances.
Also to be able to give some answers to what we are seeing, just a simple disassembly of the speakers would often already gives some answers or at least hints.
It's not much more than just 8 simple screws in this case.
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