Elac Adante AS-61 Speaker Review

[amirm]

There's no point in showing the "-x°" curves. It only makes the plot more confusing.

If I take them out then the exports won't have them either and people want that.

 

[napilopez]

The drooping top active and broad 7K scoop is interesting. I expected this scoop to fill out off axis since Andrew Jones talks has gone on record saying he tends to prioritize off axis response. But it doesn't seem to straighten out until about 40-50 degrees.
It seems coaxial speakers have an uphill battle against the klippel and preference score. In the context of the other coaxials so far, the LS50 looks a lot stronger. Curious to see how newer KEF models like the R3 would hold up to the preference score.

EDIT: Also, very notably, Jones' own super cheap pioneer BS22 beats the Andante in the preference department, even without ignoring LFX. Not by an insignificant margin either 4.0/5.9 to 4.8/7.4 - Ouch.

It seems really hard to believe the pioneer would be better, but the measurements are indeed better, especially in the PIR department. I'd be very curious to see the blind test results between these two speakers with the pioneer in its comfort zone in terms of SPL level. One of these days the forum should organize a blind test with some of the speakers so far that are mismatched in price and build quality. It could be very revealing.

 

[Sancus]

The drooping top active is interesting. It seems coaxial speakers have an uphill battle against the klippel and preference score.

I really want to send in a Genelec 8351b but extra cost is an issue, especially since it's $900 more in the US vs Canada so drop shipping is problematic.

 

[BDWoody]

Sometimes I blind-fold myself too and have my girlfriend switch back and forth...

I like this methodology so far...

 

[Matias]

Stereo Magazine 19 by Matthias Böde

https://stereo-magazine.com/flipview/28

View attachment 50447View attachment 50448

In a 100dB Y axis everything looks linear.

 

[mhardy6647]

I need to get a comparably priced speaker as a reference for both objective and subjective comparisons. Without it, I am being a bit soft in my final stance.

I appreciate your caution and you candor, sir (FWIW).

 

[Matias]

[IMG, link] https://images.crutchfieldonline.co...1129/products/2018/4/970/g970AS61GB-o_cut.jpg

Optimized

View attachment 50449

Only I can see some absorbent. No damping material. Only € 3,000.

So the big "woofer" (PR) in front is just for show, and the tiny one behind is the real one. That's cheating!

 

[Juhazi]

And music typically has most energy/spl around 200Hz! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_density

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I need to get a comparably priced speaker as a reference for both objective and subjective comparisons. Without it, I am being a bit soft in my final stance.

After reviewing and measuring 8-10 small speakers, it's becoming apparent it's not all that easy to make a really good mini monitor.

 

[thewas]

That's because it is now discontinued. Likely because the end result didn't live up to standards and production complexity.
The newer, cheaper Carina measures better.

I have the feeling that its active sibling, the Navis ARB-51 measures better while being cheaper and is the main reason why it was discontinued, the Carina is a different (cheaper) class.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Well, the site says "Crossover frequency: 200Hz / 2,000 Hz" and the data backs this up.

It concerns me they would use such a low crossover point for a concentric design. You want the midrange to move as little as possible. Plus, this isn't like a standard 5" driver; the actual surface area here is closer to a 2 or 3" driver once you consider the tweeter is static and consumes a lot of surface area. So you're essentially trying to get a 2 or 3 inch midrange to cross at 200hz; no bueno. When I ran the Kef R-series concentric in my car 7 years ago (pictured below) I used it actively and HP'd it above 350hz with an LR4 slope. And even then I sometimes felt that was too low.

View attachment 50461

Did you cannabalize an existing speaker set or were you able to buy those from Kef. (Think I already know the answer, but gonna ask anyway.)

 

[hardisj]

Did you cannabalize an existing speaker set or were you able to buy those from Kef. (Think I already know the answer, but gonna ask anyway.)

Cannibalize

 

[edechamps]

I have added the Elac Adante AS-61 to the Loudspeaker Explorer in case anyone wants to compare side-by-side with other speakers.

 

[Prana Ferox]

So the big "woofer" (PR) in front is just for show, and the tiny one behind is the real one. That's cheating!

It looks like a variation of a 4th order bandpass (or whatever the heck this is with the internal port added), with the PR maybe saving space over a port. The bandpass probably dictated the 200hz crossover to the midrange. Whatever the reasoning for the complication and expense over a regular ported box, it doesn't seem to show here. That woofer looks a lot like the Anarchy 6.5", btw, which is a nice little driver.

E: Correction, this setup would be 6th order series, with PR in place of the downstream port.

 

[edechamps]

It is always fun to use the full visualization of soundfield around the speaker as computed. Here is what happens during that dip around 7 kHz:
View attachment 50434
This is looking into the speaker in front of you. We see the highest amplitude as represented by darkest shade of red is spread around and mostly pushed towards the corners. This seems to indicate diffraction (little speakers singing along). An ideal response would be a "hot" center and dropping to the sides.

It's amazing when the NFS produces these kinds of insights. Up until know I've always wondered if edge diffraction was a real problem in practice. The measurement system is so sensitive that it can even tell you where the edges are located in space. Feels like living in the future. Seems like a must-have tool for speaker designers!

 

[MZKM]

Seems like a must-have tool for speaker designers!

Or a dream goal due to the costs!
I know KEF still uses groundplane measuring in some regard (and states the issues due to environment), no idea why they don’t buy one of these. They are probably the only big brand not under the Harman umbrella that heavily focuses on improving measured performance.

 

[MZKM]

The drooping top octave

I wonder how much of an effect the cover has on that.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Preference Rating
SCORE: 4.0
SCORE ignore LFX: 5.9

At least it has a wide vertical sweet-spot (good for near-field), shame about the 200Hz dip though (and don't want to risk EQ'ing that up too much due to distortion).

I'm actually surprised it didn't rate a bit higher. There are dips in the FR but they are quite narrow-band, while the overall balance is actually pretty neutral. And the off-axis behaviour is quite well-controlled.

Not a criticism, obviously, and not arguing with the maths lol. Just a little surprised it was apparently penalised so heavily for these particular shortcomings.

EDIT: I also would have thought little weight would be given to the top-octave off-axis droop, as this region of the audio spectrum is perceptually not very important. Or are all spectra weighted equally in the calculation? I'll have to read up on it, has been a while...

 

[andreasmaaan]

Hi @amirm, thanks again for the measurements At what SPL and distance were the distortion measurements taken? And are these taken at the same SPL and distance for all the speakers you measure?

 

[amirm]

Hi @amirm, thanks again for the measurements At what SPL and distance were the distortion measurements taken? And are these taken at the same SPL and distance for all the speakers you measure?

For all passive speakers, they are fed 2.83 volts. The analyzer is smart and adjusts amplification gain until it gets this precise voltage level (amp output gets routed through the analyzer on the way out to the speaker). CEA-2034 stipulates 2.83 volts and not a fixed SPL for passive speakers and hence this strategy.

So depending on efficiency of the speaker, the actual SPL level varies some. Most have been similar though so until we test ultra efficient speakers or something, the variation in SPL is small.

For active speakers, the situation gets much more complicated. CEA 2034 wants 79 dB at 3 meters (or is it 2?). I premeasure this at 0.33 meters since my analyzer robotic arm can't go a lot past that point. I computed something like 94 dB required at this distance. For some reason though, with active speakers, the CEA-2034 graph shows completely wrong SPL information (unlike passive speakers). I think it is confusing the voltage to the active speaker with voltage on a passive one. I have to contact them to see what is going on with this.

Note that the concept of "at what distance measurements were taken" do not apply to Klippel NFS measurements. The system measures in near-field and computes the distance on its own based on optimized number of points (1004 points in this case). Once it computers the sound field mathematically, then it projects the sound field to far field and reports it at 1 meter. No actual measurement is occuring at 1 meter. It is like having the formula Y = 2 * X +5 and plugging whatever you want in "X" and solving for "Y."

Hope this is clear.